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From "John Morrison" <john.r.morri...@ntlworld.com>
Subject RE: [Patch] tweaks to DTDs and XML
Date Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:02:23 GMT
> From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@indexgeo.com.au]
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > > Hi Stefano, my usual thing when i start out on an XML
> > > project is to validate one of the existing XML documents
> > > to be sure that the infrastructure is set up properly.
> >
> > Yeah, I didn't do that... because I knew that somebody else
> > would have done it :)
>
> Please do not rely on that.

While I've been programming OSS that's one thing I *have* come
to rely on - not relying on anyone :)

> > I know, I know, call me captain lazy butt :)

If you insist... :)

> Well i will kick it now and then :-) Sorry, i know that we are
> all busy and some fundamental things get overlooked.
>
> Perhaps that is my role in life. It seems that everywhere i go
> in XML-land, people are over-looking fundamental infrastructure
> issues, which leads to serious problems down the track. I see
> people publishing DTDs that they have not actually used, and
> i get horrified.

There's a lack of knowledge as to _how_ to do this.

> I am not having a shot at you Stefano - just a general gripe.
> On the cocoon-dev list i am having trouble getting people to
> consider validation issues.

Do it - if people complain ask them to explain why.  I'll always
back you up.

> Anyway, i think that it is important to get these issues sorted
> out early in the life of Forrest.

Thanks.

> > > There are some issues with Forrest, but i have sorted
> > > most of them out and attach a collection of patches
> > > forrest-patch.tar.gz ...
> > >
> <snip/>
> >
> > > 2) modified schemas/catalog
> > > - Fixed typo ... IOSdia.pen => ISOdia.pen
> >
> > yeah, good eye
>
> Actually no, my eye missed it. It was only when i tried
> to validate changes.xml that it came up. This was the
> first issue raised by the validating parser.
>
> That is my main point. It is so easy to make blunders
> when authoring XML instances or when designing DTDs.
> One cannot rely on the eye (or even on editing tools)
> and must use a validating parser.
>
> <snip/>
> >
> > > There are a couple of other things that i do not have
> > > time to address. Here is what my xml parser says ...
> > > --------
> > > /usr/local/cvs/xml-forrest/schemas/DTD/document-v11.dtd
> [352:19] : Error: duplicate declaration for element 'note'
> > > /usr/local/cvs/xml-forrest/schemas/DTD/document-v11.dtd
> [486:34] : Fatal error:
> > > content model not correctly delimited
> > > reading entity developers: developers.xml
> > > /usr/local/cvs/xml-forrest/changes.xml [18:11] : Error: an
> IDREF attribute refers to the ID 'SF' which is not present in the document
> > > --------
> >
> > Hmmm, weird. What parser are you using?
>
> Since before XML days i have been using James Clark's
> SP/nsgmls. It provides very useful error messages, reports
> line numbers better, and does some magic to take earlier
> messages into account. That has now evolved into
> OpenSP at openjade.sourceforge.net
>
> However, the messages that i provided above are from
> another nice parser called xmlvalid at www.elcel.com
>
> I find that i often need two separate parsers to nail the
> difficult errors, though OpenSP usually does the trick.
>
> Here is what OpenSP says when validating the current
> changes.xml ...
> --------
> document-v11.dtd:352:35:E: element type "note" already defined
> document-v11.dtd:488:30:E: delimiter "|" invalid: only data tag group,
> model group, element token, "#PCDATA", "#ALL", "#IMPLICIT" and
> token separators are allowed for
>
> changes.xml:6:0:W: generic identifier "warning" used in DTD but
> not defined
> changes.xml:6:0:W: generic identifier "img" used in DTD but not defined
> changes.xml:6:0:W: generic identifier "body" used in DTD but not defined
> changes.xml:6:0:W: generic identifier "li" used in DTD but not defined
> changes.xml:6:0:W: generic identifier "connect" used in DTD but
> not defined
> changes.xml:13:15:X: reference to non-existent ID "SF"
> --------
>
> I am not sure why those 5 Warnings about the DTD are being
> referred to as coming from line 6 of changes.xml (perhaps
> because changes-v11.dtd includes document-v11.dtd).
>
> That last error may be because the developers.xml is
> included as an external entity. I am not familiar enough with
> IDREF to say.
>
> Sorry, i cannot help out more with the actual DTD errors.

David - would it be worth putting some documentation together
for the forrest project on how to use these tools?  Possibly
using the forrest dtds' and layout as examples...?

Anyway - thanks for the names, if I ever get the opportunity I'll
take a look.

J.


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