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From David Crossley <>
Subject [Proposal] initial build system for Forrest (Was: Simple example to start from)
Date Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:18:41 GMT
I was in the middle of preparing this email when
Ken's frustrated posting came though today ...

A while ago Ken Barozzi proposed a kick-start for the
Forrest build system. However, i think that discussion
may have been missed. Perhaps this was due to a
poor initial email subject line.

In the email below, i gather that Ken would like to move
the development of the Krysalis Centipede project starter
kit, from Sourceforge to Forrest.

However, i wonder if that is appropriate. You have an
excellent resource there. Many other projects could
benefit from Krysalis Centipede. Forrest could be a user
of your kit, to gain a kick-start. However, if the development
moves to Forrest then i am concerned that the scope of
Forrest will be far broader than that of Centipede. If so,
then the world would lose the excellent starter kit that
you provide.

So i wonder if it is better that the two projects be kept as
separate. Forrest can benefit from and acknowledge the
kick-start. Lessons that are learned from the implementation
can then be fed back into Centipede.

Anyway, i have krysalis-centipede-0.1 on my system
and it looks to me to be just what Forrest needs. We may
need to leave out some of the extra tools/lib/* until we
actually require them.

Let us discuss this broader issue first. I think that some
others will need to look into Centipede. I am not expert
in starting a project, other Forrest dwellers would know


> Subject: Re: Simple example to start from
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:52:24 +1100
> From: David Crossley <>
> To:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > Hi to everyone.  :-)  I'm very happy to see this project start, I can't
> > wait to use it!
> > Anyway, here are my 2 cents.
> > 
> > Since I use Ant build files in my project and need to create
> > documentation, I generally rip the project structure from previous
> > projects. This creates old useless builds and unused targets.
> > 
> > Not knowing that Forrest had the making of a standard build as one of
> > its goals, I added a sub-project on sourceforge, called centipede
> > ( An example of the build being used is in the
> > jakarta-poi module on Sourceforge (POI Project). They are using it
> > without the split build in jakarta-poi on Jakarta also. They helped me a
> > lot in understanding the requirements.
> > 
> > It's just a cleanup with minor modifications of the structure used by
> > Cocoon and the stylesheets from Avalon (thanks guys!). I cleaned the
> > build of cocoon-only targets, added a contrib section, a cleandocs
> > target, added interactive functionality and notifications of pending
> > patches in bugzilla to the list, and split the target in many files
> > referenced as XML entities. Some of these have been included in Cocoon
> > as a test, but I shifted the discussion on how to continue here, since
> > on the Cocoon list IMHO it's slightly OT. I've also been working to
> > reduce the time it takes for Cocoon to generate the docs, and it seems
> > that it's the crawling that slows it down.
> > 
> > Now that I've read the Forrest goals, I'm excited of the possible
> > outcomes of this new Apache project, and would like to continue
> > development here, closing centipede.
> As far as i can tell, your stuff would provide a good kick-start
> to the Forrest build system. I have looked at your Bugzilla
> contribution (Cocoon:6047), read your postings to cocoon-dev,
> and i have done a brief investigation of your Krysalis Centipede.
> I am certainly no Ant expert, but i like the simplicity and modularity
> that you have implemented. Especially good to see, is the way
> that you have utilised the power of XML to get the parser to
> include the *.xpart as external entities.
> > I would like to integrate also automatic jar downloading and simple
> > build system upgrades, along with a single file to describe the whole
> > project (a modern STATUS file) and chart-report making.
> Good vision. However, the initial build system needs to be
> in place first. So please slow down a little :-)
> --David

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