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From "Matthias J. Sax" <mj...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP 1 - Flink Improvement Proposal
Date Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:46:38 GMT
Done.

I replaced KIP -> FLIP and Kafka -> Flink. Still there are some things
we need to rework. Please have a look and propose changes.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals

Same for FLIP Template

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP+Template


-Matthias

On 07/08/2016 09:56 AM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
> Hi,
> I got this reply from one of the Kafka committers:
> 
> Thanks for sharing your intention to use a process similar to our KIP
> 
> process. You are more than welcome to copy the structures and docs that we
> 
> have for the KIP process. :)
> 
> Ismael
> 
> 
> So it seems we're good to go. @Matthias, since you are a Kafka contributor,
> could you maybe copy the relevant docs from the Kafka wiki to our wiki? The
> source for this page:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Kafka+Improvement+Proposals
> and
> the KIP template that is referenced there. If you want, I can take it from
> there and adapt it to Flink and then let everyone discuss it again.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Aljoscha
> 
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:38 Aljoscha Krettek <aljoscha@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> I'll reach out to the Kafka community and ask if it's ok for us to "steal"
>> their process for this.
>>
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:36 Aljoscha Krettek <aljoscha@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> @Matthias: Yes, this is the reason why I like the KIP process and why I
>>> said "The problem with these is that a) the comments on the Google Docs are
>>> not reflected in Jira and the mailing list. There has been some very active
>>> discussion on some of the docs that most people would never notice.".
>>>
>>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:28 Robert Metzger <rmetzger@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also like the proposal. I think its an issue that Google Docs comments
>>>> are not reflected within ASF infra. Therefore, I'm +1 on discussing the
>>>> proposals on the mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that we need to clean up our wiki.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just to point out one thing about Kafka KIPs and using the project
>>>> wiki:
>>>>>
>>>>> The wiki contains the current state of the proposal, while the
>>>>> discussion is covered over the dev-mailing list. IMHO, this makes a lot
>>>>> of sense, as people tend to follow the mailing list but not wiki
>>>>> changes. Furthermore, the mailing list tracks the whole discussion
>>>>> history, while the proposal is kept in a clean state and thus easy to
>>>> read.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/06/2016 10:09 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
>>>>>> Jip, that's why I referenced the Kafka process which is also in their
>>>>> wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 at 21:01 Stephan Ewen <sewen@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, big +1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had actually talked about the same thing with some people as
well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am currently sketching a few FLIPs for things, like improvements
>>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Yarn/Mesos/Kubernetes integration
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One thing we should do here is to actually structure the wiki
a bit
>>>> to
>>>>> make
>>>>>>> it easier to find information and proposals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Ufuk Celebi <uce@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Aljoscha,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks for this proposal. I've somehow missed it last week.
I like
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> idea very much and agree with your assessment about the problems
>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the Google Doc approach.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the process: I'm also in favour of adopting it
from
>>>> Kafka. I
>>>>>>>> would not expect any problems with this, but we can post
a quick
>>>> note
>>>>>>>> to their ML.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Matthias: The name works for me. ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> – Ufuk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>>>> mjsax@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> FLIP ?? Really? :D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.maya.tv/en/character/flip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 06/28/2016 06:26 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm proposing to add a formal process for how we
deal with
>>>> (major)
>>>>>>>>>> improvements to Flink and design docs. This has been
mentioned
>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>> times recently but we never took any decisive action
to actually
>>>>>>>> implement
>>>>>>>>>> such a process so here we go.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Right now, we have Jira issues and we sometimes we
have design
>>>> docs
>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>> keep in Google Docs. Jamie recently added links to
those that he
>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> on the mailing list to the Flink wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Apache+Flink+Home.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> problem with these is that a) the comments on the
Google Docs
>>>> are not
>>>>>>>>>> reflected in Jira and the mailing list. There has
been some very
>>>>>>> active
>>>>>>>>>> discussion on some of the docs that most people would
never
>>>> notice.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> community therefore might seem less active than it
actually is.
>>>> b)
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> documents are not very discoverable, if we had a
clearly defined
>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>> where we put them and also prominently link to this
on the Flink
>>>>>>>> homepage
>>>>>>>>>> this would greatly help people that try to find out
about current
>>>>>>>>>> developments.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kafka has a process like this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Kafka+Improvement+Proposals
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>> They call it KIP, for Kafka Improvement Proposal.
We could either
>>>>>>> adapt
>>>>>>>>>> this for Flink or come up with our own process. Doing
the former
>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> save
>>>>>>>>>> us a lot of time and I don't think the Kafka community
would
>>>> mind us
>>>>>>>>>> copying their process. The subject also hints at
this, our
>>>> process
>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>> called FLIP, for Flink Improvement Proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think? Feedback is highly welcome. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Aljoscha
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> 


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