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From Ufuk Celebi <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP 1 - Flink Improvement Proposal
Date Fri, 08 Jul 2016 14:00:03 GMT
What about the scripts?

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Aljoscha Krettek <aljoscha@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks a lot, Matthias! I created an actual "FLIP-Template" based on the
> template you copied over.
>
> I propose to change the list of public interfaces to this:
>
> All of the following are public interfaces that people build around:
>  - DataStream and DataSet API, including classes related to that, such as
> StreamExecutionEnvironment
>  - Classes marked with the @Public annotation
>  - On-disk binary formats, such as checkpoints/savepoints
>  - Configuration
>  - Monitoring
>
> Cheers,
> Aljoscha
>
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 at 13:49 Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Done.
>>
>> I replaced KIP -> FLIP and Kafka -> Flink. Still there are some things
>> we need to rework. Please have a look and propose changes.
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals
>>
>> Same for FLIP Template
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP+Template
>>
>>
>> -Matthias
>>
>> On 07/08/2016 09:56 AM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I got this reply from one of the Kafka committers:
>> >
>> > Thanks for sharing your intention to use a process similar to our KIP
>> >
>> > process. You are more than welcome to copy the structures and docs that
>> we
>> >
>> > have for the KIP process. :)
>> >
>> > Ismael
>> >
>> >
>> > So it seems we're good to go. @Matthias, since you are a Kafka
>> contributor,
>> > could you maybe copy the relevant docs from the Kafka wiki to our wiki?
>> The
>> > source for this page:
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Kafka+Improvement+Proposals
>> > and
>> > the KIP template that is referenced there. If you want, I can take it
>> from
>> > there and adapt it to Flink and then let everyone discuss it again.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Aljoscha
>> >
>> > On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:38 Aljoscha Krettek <aljoscha@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'll reach out to the Kafka community and ask if it's ok for us to
>> "steal"
>> >> their process for this.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:36 Aljoscha Krettek <aljoscha@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> @Matthias: Yes, this is the reason why I like the KIP process and why
I
>> >>> said "The problem with these is that a) the comments on the Google
>> Docs are
>> >>> not reflected in Jira and the mailing list. There has been some very
>> active
>> >>> discussion on some of the docs that most people would never notice.".
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 at 11:28 Robert Metzger <rmetzger@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I also like the proposal. I think its an issue that Google Docs
>> comments
>> >>>> are not reflected within ASF infra. Therefore, I'm +1 on discussing
>> the
>> >>>> proposals on the mailing list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I agree that we need to clean up our wiki.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Just to point out one thing about Kafka KIPs and using the project
>> >>>> wiki:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The wiki contains the current state of the proposal, while the
>> >>>>> discussion is covered over the dev-mailing list. IMHO, this
makes a
>> lot
>> >>>>> of sense, as people tend to follow the mailing list but not
wiki
>> >>>>> changes. Furthermore, the mailing list tracks the whole discussion
>> >>>>> history, while the proposal is kept in a clean state and thus
easy to
>> >>>> read.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Matthias
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 07/06/2016 10:09 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
>> >>>>>> Jip, that's why I referenced the Kafka process which is
also in
>> their
>> >>>>> wiki.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 at 21:01 Stephan Ewen <sewen@apache.org>
wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yes, big +1
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I had actually talked about the same thing with some
people as
>> well.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I am currently sketching a few FLIPs for things, like
improvements
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> Yarn/Mesos/Kubernetes integration
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> One thing we should do here is to actually structure
the wiki a bit
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>> make
>> >>>>>>> it easier to find information and proposals.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Ufuk Celebi <uce@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hey Aljoscha,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> thanks for this proposal. I've somehow missed it
last week. I like
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> idea very much and agree with your assessment about
the problems
>> >>>> with
>> >>>>>>>> the Google Doc approach.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Regarding the process: I'm also in favour of adopting
it from
>> >>>> Kafka. I
>> >>>>>>>> would not expect any problems with this, but we
can post a quick
>> >>>> note
>> >>>>>>>> to their ML.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> @Matthias: The name works for me. ;-)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> – Ufuk
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Matthias J. Sax
<
>> >>>> mjsax@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> FLIP ?? Really? :D
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.maya.tv/en/character/flip
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On 06/28/2016 06:26 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm proposing to add a formal process for
how we deal with
>> >>>> (major)
>> >>>>>>>>>> improvements to Flink and design docs. This
has been mentioned
>> >>>>> several
>> >>>>>>>>>> times recently but we never took any decisive
action to actually
>> >>>>>>>> implement
>> >>>>>>>>>> such a process so here we go.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Right now, we have Jira issues and we sometimes
we have design
>> >>>> docs
>> >>>>>>>> that we
>> >>>>>>>>>> keep in Google Docs. Jamie recently added
links to those that he
>> >>>>> could
>> >>>>>>>> find
>> >>>>>>>>>> on the mailing list to the Flink wiki:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Apache+Flink+Home.
>> >>>>>>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>> problem with these is that a) the comments
on the Google Docs
>> >>>> are not
>> >>>>>>>>>> reflected in Jira and the mailing list.
There has been some very
>> >>>>>>> active
>> >>>>>>>>>> discussion on some of the docs that most
people would never
>> >>>> notice.
>> >>>>>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>> community therefore might seem less active
than it actually is.
>> >>>> b)
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>> documents are not very discoverable, if
we had a clearly defined
>> >>>>> place
>> >>>>>>>>>> where we put them and also prominently link
to this on the Flink
>> >>>>>>>> homepage
>> >>>>>>>>>> this would greatly help people that try
to find out about
>> current
>> >>>>>>>>>> developments.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Kafka has a process like this:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Kafka+Improvement+Proposals
>> >>>>>>>> .
>> >>>>>>>>>> They call it KIP, for Kafka Improvement
Proposal. We could
>> either
>> >>>>>>> adapt
>> >>>>>>>>>> this for Flink or come up with our own process.
Doing the former
>> >>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>> save
>> >>>>>>>>>> us a lot of time and I don't think the Kafka
community would
>> >>>> mind us
>> >>>>>>>>>> copying their process. The subject also
hints at this, our
>> >>>> process
>> >>>>>>>> could be
>> >>>>>>>>>> called FLIP, for Flink Improvement Proposal.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> What do you think? Feedback is highly welcome.
:-)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>>>>>> Aljoscha
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>

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