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From Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Web Page Issue
Date Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:09:05 GMT
I think the quickstarts should be very easy to discover, so we should keep them on the main
page. If you just browse to flink.apache.org you would not be aware that they exist.
> On 28 Oct 2015, at 13:37, Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> What about "Quickstart" menu point... I really would like to move it
> under "Documentation" (to get rid of linking to the doc page on two
> places...)
> 
> Furthermore, I would suggest to rename "Overview" to "Home" on main page
> and keep "Overview" on doc page.
> 
> Logo/Text: I am fine with a text-link (but would remove the logo link --
> there is no advantage in having it)
> 
> If there are no strict objections, I will just update my branch
> accordingly, such that everybody can try it out. After that, we can try
> to come to a conclusion.
> 
> I guess, together with the darker color schema on the doc page menu, the
> distinction between both pages should become clear.
> 
> -Matthias
> 
> On 10/28/2015 11:19 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote:
>> I agree with Max.
>> Renaming Overview in Documentation and adding a clear link back to the
>> project website are the most important issues, IMO.
>> 
>> 
>> 2015-10-28 10:59 GMT+01:00 Maximilian Michels <mxm@apache.org>:
>> 
>>> We should be careful not to break links to the docs again. I'm in
>>> favor of making it more clear what is the Flink web site and what its
>>> documentation is. For me, it would be enough to change "Overview 1.0"
>>> to "Documentation 1.0" and have a clear link which says "Back to Flink
>>> website". That should do it.
>>> 
>>> In the light of the release, all other changes are not that important
>>> to me right now but I wouldn't deny the structure of the documentation
>>> can be improved.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Fabian Hueske <fhueske@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I agree, two Overview links pointing to different locations should be
>>>> changed.
>>>> I am not so sure about the Logo issue. IMO, there should be always a text
>>>> link. The logo link should only be an addition.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe we should wait for more opinions, before we continue.
>>>> The website has been changed a couple of times, so it would be good to
>>> get
>>>> input from those who built the current website, IMO.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2015-10-28 9:56 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, but I think that the "Overview" link to index.html is
>>>>> confusing/wrong. The doc web page has "Overview" too, and it points to
>>>>> https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/index.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> There should be only one page with name "Overview" (either on the web
>>>>> page or on the doc page). I actually thought, that the "Overview" link
>>>>> from the main page should point to the documentation overview and is
>>>>> currently just wrong?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Last but not least, using the Logo and an additional "Overview" menu
>>>>> point both pointing to the same location is redundant. I would just go
>>>>> with the logo as a link (or if an explicit menu point is used, disable
>>>>> the logo as a link -- too me, it is always confusing it two links next
>>>>> to each other do the same thing).
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:56 PM, Fabian Hueske wrote:
>>>>>> I agree that it is confusing that the documentation is linked more
>>> than
>>>>>> once from the project website menu. It is not clear when you enter
>>> the
>>>>>> documentation section and how to get back.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, the "Overview" menu entry on the project website does not
>>> point
>>>>> to
>>>>>> the documentation but to http://flink.apache.org/index.html. Hence,
>>> it
>>>>> can
>>>>>> stay in the menu and should not be moved under Documentation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would also add a dedicated "Project Website" link to the
>>> Documentation
>>>>>> menu in addition to the link on the logo.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2015-10-27 20:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for the input Fabian!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was actually referring to the main page regarding changes of
the
>>> menu
>>>>>>> structure.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Currently, the layout is:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   FlinkLogo    |  Overview   | Quickstart  | Features | Download
|
>>>>>>> Documentation | FAQ || Blog | Community | Project
>>>>>>>> (-> index.html)  (-> doc page) (-> doc page)
>>>  (->
>>>>>>> doc page)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would change it to
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   FlinkLogo    | Features | Download | Documentation | FAQ
||
>>> Blog |
>>>>>>> Community | Project
>>>>>>>> (-> index.html)                         (-> doc page)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> With Documentation:
>>>>>>>  - Overview
>>>>>>>  - Quickstart (Setup)
>>>>>>>  - Latest Release (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc)
>>>>>>>  - Snapshot (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc)
>>>>>>>  - Wiki
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This give the advantage, that only a single menu points to the
doc
>>> page.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the doc page, I would keep the Flink logo that points back
to the
>>>>>>> main web page.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Overview | Quickstart | Setup | Programming Guides
|
>>>>>>> Libraries | Internals
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We could split "Programming Guides" into "DataSet API" and
>>> "DataStream
>>>>>>> API". The question is about all the other menu point of "Programming
>>>>>>> Guides".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Where to move "Best Practice", "Examples", "Local Execution",
>>> "Cluster
>>>>>>> Execution", "Command Line Interface", "Web Client", and "Java
8" ??
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> => "Python", "Interactive Scale Shell", "Connectors", "Iterations",
>>>>>>> "Hadoop" could go to "DataSet API"
>>>>>>> => "Storm" could go to "DataStream API"
>>>>>>> => as an alternative, "Pyhton", "Hadoop", and "Storm" could
go to
>>>>>>> "Libraries" too
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:42 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Matthias,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> thanks for taking care of this issue.
>>>>>>>> How about we change the menu completely, i.e., have menue
entries
>>> for:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - Project Website
>>>>>>>> - Setup
>>>>>>>>  - Local
>>>>>>>>  - Cluster
>>>>>>>>  - Yarn
>>>>>>>> - DataSet API
>>>>>>>>  - Programming guide
>>>>>>>>  - transformations
>>>>>>>> - DataStream API
>>>>>>>>  - Programming Guide
>>>>>>>> - Internals
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is not a complete list, just what came to my mind right
now.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Fabian
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2015-10-27 3:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mjsax@apache.org>:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I started to work on this. Please see here:
>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mjsax/flink/tree/flink-2752-webpage
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Basically, I just changed the color schema of the menu.
I also
>>> remove
>>>>>>>>> "How to Contribute" and "Coding Guidelines" from "Internals".
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> To get an even better separation, I would like to change
the menu
>>> from
>>>>>>>>> the main web page, too.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - At least we should change the link of "Overview" which
is not
>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>> at all, right now (is it broken or intentionally?)
>>>>>>>>> - I would also move "Quickstart" as sub-menu point of
>>> "Documentation"
>>>>>>>>> - maybe we could move "Overview" as sub-menu point of
>>>>> "Documentation",
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From my point of view, having a different menu structure
and color
>>>>>>>>> should be good enough to make the distinction of both
pages clear.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Btw: the link "setup guide" in *Getting Started* section
at the
>>> main
>>>>>>>>> page is broken... I would fix this together with those
changes (if
>>>>>>>>> accepted).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Please give feedback.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2015 10:40 AM, Maximilian Michels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Matthias for pointing this out. I opened an
issue some
>>> time
>>>>> ago
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> a similar description:
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-2752
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Fabian and Ufuk that it makes sense
to separate the
>>>>>>> website
>>>>>>>>>> and the source repository. However, the distinction
between the
>>>>>>>>>> documentation and the homepage should be more clear.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Ufuk Celebi <uce@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 10:27, Fabian Hueske <fhueske@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The website consists of two parts which are
maintained in two
>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>> respositories:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The project website about features, community,
etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) The documentation of the project
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have the separation because we want to
be able to update
>>> source
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in one repository to avoid
that the documentation
>>>>> gets
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> sync. The documentation is built every night
and hosted at
>>>>>>>>> ci.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, this separation makes sense, because
the project website
>>> is
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> changed very often whereas the documentation
should be touched
>>>>>>> whenever
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> API or behavior is changed. I think it is
very important to
>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in sync with the code. In fact,
I believe both
>>> parts
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> website should not be related to each other,
so they shouldn't
>>> be a
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> have both parts getting out-of-sync, except
for layout / design
>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> nice to have but not crucial. We might even
think about
>>> changing
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> color-scheme of the documentation to make
the difference more
>>>>> clear.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Max pointed this out in the beginning. Let’s
change the
>>>>>>>>> colors/design
>>>>>>>>>>> to make the distinction clear. The confusion
comes from the fact
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> look similar. It only makes sense to assume that
they are
>>> hosted on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same web server etc. But as Fabian said, there
are good reasons
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> – Ufuk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 


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