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From Adam Malejko <a...@malejko.com>
Subject Re: [FLEXJS][Marketing] why should a web dev choose FlexJS?
Date Fri, 15 Sep 2017 22:36:00 GMT
.. understood. This is still why I have FlexJS listed as incomplete with
missing components. It's in Beta, and Adobe (your employer no less; I bet
those conversations are fun at your office!) kind of dropped the ball on
Flash Player  before FlexJS was ready. But do they care? No, they have
their own HTML5 output and stuff now, and I'm not buying into it. What I
would have loved would have been Flex 5, outputting to JS and SWF's! I
don't really care 'how small' a lot of the components are now. Look where
Adobe went with their Spark stuff on mobile? "So small, efficient and tiny
for all the mobile phones!" .. and then everyone got a gig or more of RAM
in their phone.. But now I'm getting off topic on a Friday afternoon. None
of this is a slight to any of the devs; it's just where things are right
now, for various reasons.

I really want to go with FlexJS, but at this point ExtJS is looking more
appealing (other than the cost of course) with their AMF support and their
component set. Maybe FlexJS will just have to be for my personal projects..


On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
wrote:

> I forgot to mention why we are building our own components.  One is to see
> how small we can get, but the other is to have pieces around to use to
> mock or replicate one platform's controls on another platform.  For
> example, you can't currently use the MDL components in a SWF, but you can
> use Jquery Button in an app that has both SWF and JS output since we've
> roughly emulated Jquery's Button in SWF by assembling the right beads.  We
> could assemble the right beads for MDL components in SWF if we wanted to.
> And if we do get around to targeting another runtime, we should be able to
> reuse a lot of this code.
>
> HTH,
> -Alex
>
> On 9/15/17, 2:42 PM, "Alex Harui" <aharui@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> >We are building our own versions of Charts and DataGrids and DatePickers.
> >But how robust they will be depends on customer input.  This project
> >doesn't currently have enough people power to try to match the feature set
> >of popular JS components and I'm not even clear we want to.  We should
> >probably try to make it simple to drop in a third-party component and/or
> >component set.  We've got a set for MDL and partial sets for CreateJS and
> >Jquery.
> >
> >At least for Jquery, we are really wrapping JQueryUI.  Jquery is its own
> >programming environment based on queries, AIUI.  Peter Ent did play with
> >ReactJS over a year ago [1] and concluded it is its own programming
> >environment with JSX.  But it may be possible to wrap their UI controls
> >like their DataGrid.
> >
> >HTH,
> >-Alex
> >
> >[1]
> >https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Flists.apa
> >che.org%2Fthread.html%2F32497faf105a4eeac28d082159b2
> 32e514f60e&data=02%7C0
> >1%7C%7Cc6a0dd88d34148bed35e08d4fc82aa8e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1
> >%7C0%7C0%7C636411085523537188&sdata=PkawEZTMj7%
> 2BRPLGexdn2r2sV9wLfngUcwv8I
> >Olz9PiY%3D&reserved=0
> >eedd033157b46e8d3c@%3Cdev.flex.apache.org%3E
> >
> >On 9/15/17, 2:18 PM, "Adam Malejko" <adam@malejko.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I have looked at the MDL Table, and it's going to work for most of the
> >>use-cases, for sure. The MDL components [1] went a long way to showing me
> >>what could be done in FlexJS.
> >>
> >>Using a React-based DataGrid isn't important, the important part is
> >>having
> >>an awesome datagrid to display and manipulate data. I believe it's
> >>possible
> >>in FlexJS now, but I haven't seen any awesome ones yet.
> >>
> >>Looking back (a decade..), the third party components for Flex was a big
> >>part of what attracted us. You could seemingly do anything, and if not,
> >>it
> >>wasn't hard to expand upon an existing component, and you didn't have to
> >>worry about browser compatabilities at all! It was awesome. Now? Well,
> >>we're looking at all the options. The biggest thing we will have to say
> >>goodbye to is LCDS at this point. DataServices was fun...
> >>
> >>While I'm at it - does anyone know of any good Calendar components that
> >>FlexJS could use? We've been using the KC-Calendar in a couple of
> >>projects
> >>for a while now, and I am not looking forward to replacing that either..
> >>
> >>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.ap
> >>a
> >>che.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FFLEX%2FTable%2BOf%
> 2BComponents&data=02%7
> >>C
> >>01%7C%7Cbe25aba0e8b440eba51808d4fc7f6532%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> ce
> >>e
> >>1%7C0%7C0%7C636411071471715569&sdata=ezisKITOriPDFCkEqzvOuhKTH8xNG9
> q6l8tg
> >>B
> >>Q9vXvw%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >>
> >>On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:03 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
> >><bigosmallm@gmail.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Adam Malejko <adam@malejko.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > I have another developer going through our apps and identifying
> >>> components
> >>> > that are potential issues going forward.
> >>> >
> >>> > So far they have only found a few third-party components - so, not
a
> >>> fault
> >>> > of FlexJS really.
> >>> >
> >>> > The datagrid is a little lacking as well; we have been spoiled with
> >>>the
> >>> > Flexicious one, and they have gone with a new React one... can we use
> >>> that
> >>> > in FlexJS? Haven't tried yet.
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Have you looked at the MDTable?
> >>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fs.apache
> >>>.
> >>>org%2FMDLExample&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe25aba0e8b440eba51808d4fc7f
> 6532%7Cfa
> >>>7
> >>>b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636411071471715569&
> sdata=BOhWili
> >>>7
> >>>F80kAQz8h7Yu%2F4%2FEhFT60eDC2CldKHI8Q3s%3D&reserved=0
> >>> That is a good starting point to add more features.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Om
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > Giving the 'freedom to not care about JS' should have been Flex's
> >>>motto
> >>> in
> >>> > the beginning! Now FlexJS has to care about it, as that's the end
> >>> result..
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Alex Harui
> >>><aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hi Adam,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > What components are you looking for that haven't been done yet?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Again, the supposed advantage of contributing is that you get
> >>>control
> >>> > over
> >>> > > your destiny.  If there is a bug in the framework that is high
> >>>priority
> >>> > > for you and you have earned committer status by contributing in
the
> >>> past,
> >>> > > you can just commit the change.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Thanks,
> >>> > > -Alex
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On 9/15/17, 12:22 PM, "Adam Malejko" <adam@malejko.com>
wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > >More strengths to add:
> >>> > > >- AMF support getting better
> >>> > > >- RemoteObject support!
> >>> > > >- Less to re-write when porting Flex apps
> >>> > > >- Can use other JS components (with caveats, unfortunately)
> >>> > > >- Type-checking, SWF output and validation
> >>> > > >- Works in several IDE's
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >A few weaknesses to add:
> >>> > > >- It's not done yet. The components we use from Flex are not
all
> >>>done
> >>> in
> >>> > > >FlexJS yet.
> >>> > > >- No commercial support if you want it (but the Apache support
is
> >>> > > >wonderful!)
> >>> > > >- Lack of documentation
> >>> > > >- Smaller community than some of the bigger JS frameworks
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >I like the Opportunities listed, and the Threats I agree with.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Yes, we could volunteer to contribute; or we could switch
to
> >>>React,
> >>> > > >Angular, ExtJS, or something else.. we're on the fence and
looking
> >>>in
> >>> to
> >>> > > >all of our options, of which there are many these days.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Berty Tonta (Leadstalk)
<
> >>> > > >berty.tonta@leadstalk.pro> wrote:
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >> If it has not been done yet, and from a marketing perspective,
> >>> would a
> >>> > > >>SWOT
> >>> > > >> help?
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> The point of the SWOT (example below) would be to look
at the
> >>> reality
> >>> > > >>and
> >>> > > >> then identify those engaging arguments to (1) answer
weaknesses
> >>>and
> >>> > > >>threats
> >>> > > >> and (2) leverage on Strength and opportunities.
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> We could then select the 3 - 4 key arguments that really
makes
> >>> FlexJS
> >>> > > >>stand
> >>> > > >> out.
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> STRENGTH
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>    - Robust AS3 foundations
> >>> > > >>    - Multiplatform
> >>> > > >>    - Open Source
> >>> > > >>    - Security???? (I'm not a developer and need you to
confirm)
> >>> > > >>    - ...
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> WEAKNESSES
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>    - Association with Flash
> >>> > > >>    - Abandoned by Adobe???
> >>> > > >>    -
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> OPPORTUNITIES
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>    - AS3/Flex a more robust/structured development platform
> >>> > > >>    - A potential enterprise class solution
> >>> > > >>    - Rebirth into an open source platform
> >>> > > >>    - Powered by the community
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> THREATS
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>    - Other "native" JS platforms
> >>> > > >>    - Potential to be rejected by pure JS/HTML5 developers
> >>> > > >>    - Perception of poor security....Flash legacy
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> Berty Tonta
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> > > >> ________________
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> LEADSTALK - 4 BENGALI STREET, BEAU BASSIN, MAURITIUS
> >>> > > >> TEL  +230 57 43 81 34 - BERTY.TONTA@LEADSTALK.PRO -
> >>>LEADSTALK.PRO
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:38 PM, gkk gb <modjklist@comcast.net
> >
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> > In addition to...
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > "Why should a web dev choose FlexJS to write JS
applications,
> >>>and
> >>> > not
> >>> > > >>go
> >>> > > >> > with a more mainstream option like e.g. TypeScript/Angular?"
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > it may also be useful to think of the end customer.
That is,
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > "Why should a company prefer their app to be written
in FlexJS
> >>> > rather
> >>> > > >> than
> >>> > > >> > ..."
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > The company will need to support their app throughout
its
> >>> lifecycle
> >>> > by
> >>> > > >> > hiring developers, etc, which, the further you go
from
> >>>mainstream
> >>> > > >> > technologies, is harder to justify. There should
be some
> >>> compelling
> >>> > > >> > business reason(s) to do so (faster development,
etc.).
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     On September 14, 2017 at 6:38 AM Piotr
Zarzycki <
> >>> > > >> > piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     Hi All,
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     Erik on dev [1] list came up wit interesting
question.
> >>>I'm
> >>> > > >>posting
> >>> > > >> > it also
> >>> > > >> > >     here:
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     With the upcoming fork and renewed focus
and most likely
> >>> some
> >>> > > >> > publicity, I
> >>> > > >> > >     want to ask the community to answer this
question:
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     Why should a web dev choose FlexJS to write
JS
> >>>applications,
> >>> > and
> >>> > > >> not
> >>> > > >> > go
> >>> > > >> > >     with a more mainstream option like e.g.
> >>>TypeScript/Angular?
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     I think that if we can answer that question
in a
> >>>compelling
> >>> > > >>way, we
> >>> > > >> > are in
> >>> > > >> > >     a good place as a project (from a code
perspective, at
> >>> least)
> >>> > > >>and
> >>> > > >> it
> >>> > > >> > gives
> >>> > > >> > >     the marketing folks something to work with.
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     [1]
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>> > > http%3A%2F%2Fapache-fl
> >>> > > >>ex-development.2333347.n4.nabble&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >>> > > 7Cdab072253c474bc9c0dc08
> >>> > > >>d4fc6f3d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>> > > 7C63641100209603241
> >>> > >
> >>>>>9&sdata=Z5wdmDlGuaDWy96FIy0Q4UaBCfOWAMctoTgATFbHIaY%3D&reserved=0.
> >>> > > >> > com/FLEXJS-Marketing-why-should-a-web-dev-choose-
> >>> > FlexJS-td64292.html
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> > >     Thanks,
> >>> > > >> > >     Piotr
> >>> > > >> > >
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >
>
>

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