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From Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
Subject Re: Donating to Apache Flex
Date Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:42:24 GMT
Ok … responding to this part first:

3) I don’t see the need of this. I think our CI servers are now setup nicely. We have build-times
of about 8-10 minutes. I don’t see a need to jump through all the hoops of having to maintain
our own infrastructure. Yes, the Ant build doesn’t run on Infra, but I don’t see this
as a problem of Infra, but more of the Ant build. The Maven build works nicely and I currently
can’t think of anything that’s not possible at the moment. We now even have automated
UI tests in Browsers and whenever I needed anything, I got it in the end. Yes it did usually
take some time and convincing, but in the end things turned out exactly as we needed them.


4) I don’t see this as a valid argument towards requiring our own Jira … ok … it is
somewhat sluggish every now and then, but for example, being a TAC judge I like the option
to search for a user’s Jira activity over several projects. If TLPs started having their
own JIRAs, things would get a lot harder.

So now to some general thoughts:
- If we started this, probably a lot of the big projects would start getting a lot of funds.
Funds that no longer go to the foundation, reducing the funds shared upon projects without
their own funds. We have 3xx TLPs, but I doubt most of them would receive the funding they
would need. So, we would have a hand full of rich projects and a lot of poor ones. I don’t
think that’s the spirit of the Foundation. What about Apache Commons? Probably one of the
most-used project, but probably also not one of the sexiest ones for getting funds? What about
the Incubator? It’s one of the most important Projects of Apache, but it doesn’t have
that outside marketing value.
- Having companies pay for individual Projects sort of produces a bad feeling in my gut. Even
if they don’t say so, they still could and probably would expect something for their generous
founds. I don’t want to be in the situation of having to implement something a company wants,
because otherwise they threaten to cut funding.
- I think we suck at running infrastructure … at least compared to having a team of skilled
people watching for Infra 24/7. What happens in the time lights are out in the US, if a service
goes down just before Christmas? I don’t want to rely on volunteers to run our systems.
That’s also the reason why Infra people are the only paid contractors at the ASF.
- There is a huge number of things you must deal with when running your own infrastructure.
A lot of the things are quite restrictive on Apache Infra, but it’s not because they want
to make our life harder, it’s because of damage that had been done in the past. We would
have to re-learn all those lessons already learnt by Infra. Setting up a server is super-easy.
Setting one up that’s not hackable in a handful of minutes by a Script-Kiddie is super-hard.


So, if it’s just that one VM you are looking for, I don’t have any objections as I don’t
see any difference to what we are doing now. But I don’t want to have an essential part
of our Projects infrastructure outside of Infra. 

Chris



Am 10.02.17, 22:46 schrieb "Alex Harui" <aharui@adobe.com>:

    My reasons for spending time on this are several.
    1) The ASF is growing and so are expenses.  Expenses rarely change based
    on the economy, but donations can.  If a time ever comes to discuss
    cutting expenses, I want to protect Flex by being able to make a case that
    we don't cost the ASF any money and in fact, help.
    2) We should be donating money to the ASF, but how many of you do?  I
    don't myself.  And would it be easier to justify if the money went
    directly to Flex?  It would for me.
    3) I am currently paying for one of our CI servers.  If we could get
    directed donations to pay for it, we might be able to upgrade to a faster
    server.  I would personally donate more since I would get a tax break on
    the donation.  And anyone who wants to pitch in can help and at least in
    the US, get a tax break.
    4) There are certain resources we share in the ASF like JIRA that are not,
    IMO, optimally set up for us.  We can't create custom JIRA fields, for
    example.  And more than one person has tripped over the Infra-centric
    buttons on each JIRA issue.
    5) I, and I think several board members, want to understand if handing off
    more server responsibilities to the project would scale to other projects
    and help the bottom line or hurt it.

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