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From Greg Dove <greg.d...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Date Thu, 13 Oct 2016 21:13:42 GMT
Hi Chris,

1."participating in any discussions here on the list "

"What's keeping all of you stay silent?"

>From my own perspective I would describe it as 'filtering' based on time
commitments and also my baseline knowledge.
I generally follow (to varying degrees) most discussions but don't
participate in many because of the time involved (which tbh may be
sometimes related more to the perceived obligation of follow-up over the
actual time involved for a simple quick reply) or often because I don't
feel confident with the topic.

So it's definitely not lack of interest, although the topics are diverse
and my interest is certainly different between them. For example for maven
related discussions: I was completely unfamiliar with maven prior to
FlexJS, so I have now at least 'exposure' to that, and can see it working
and have a very basic understanding that is currently limited to making
sure I test what I do against maven as well as ant, but because I have not
needed to use maven for any client work, I have not gone deeper at this
point, and would feel 'out of my depth' in any discussion related to maven.

Likewise, as another example, I intended to add myself to the project
website after joining the project, but initially got put off by the
seemingly complicated process, so I was following with interest the
separate discussion between you and Alex on this, but did not participate
in it because a) I saw it heading in the direction of what sounds like
'simpler process', and b) because I was not familiar with any of the
details. My only real contribution could have been 'simpler is better,
please', which I had understood was already decided. If, however, this
level of contribution is valuable then I can make greater effort in the
future, and I certainly value your overall efforts to reduce 'complexity'.

Other than that my own (limited, recent) participation has been mostly on
the issue or feature related threads which I am familiar with. If it is
code related it has usually been discussion with Alex.

On the few occasions when I have ventured into a more general topic,
sometimes what I have said has been misinterpreted, (and/or perhaps I have
misinterpreted others before replying). Aside from taking more time and
care with what I write, I think the only other way around this is by having
some discussions more in real time (e.g. a dedicated IRC channel), which
may also flush out more participants for some discussions because it's
easier to discuss more complicated topics, and imo participation conveys a
more concrete sense of 'community', but it could also sit quiet for long
periods of time (this is not unusual in some other projects).

2. " contributing anything else"

I'm contributing code, but my contributions will likely oscillate over
time, inversely related to oscillations in my client work obligations. I
can obviously only speak for myself, but I'm guessing others are similar
here, except those who are paid to contribute.

I do feel that the 'freedom' of not having an official roadmap can make it
difficult to see a sense of progression towards an end-goal (I can see
progress happening, for sure, just not sure what is needed to get to 1.0,
for example). I understand that is how things work on apache projects, but
perhaps one of the issues with attracting contributors might be lack of a
clearly visible external understanding of 'what needs to be done'. My
recent experience was that I had the feeling that I had to learn a lot of
other things before I could figure this out and add my own interpretation
of priorities (which recently manifested in a focus on progressing
reflection support).

Not sure if any of that is helpful.... but you got me participating in this
thread! :)

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Carlos Rovira <
carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> my thinking on this is different. Since 0.7, things start to settle a bit
> and we reach a huge milestone. Until now, it was so difficult for people
> out there to contribute or even know what's happening inside this project.
> Thanks to some lines of work (maven, next gen, and many others,...) now we
> can start to dig without getting stuck at first step. The main problem some
> months ago was that I get lost easily and must to left...
> This's not happen nowadays. Right now there's little info about what's
> inside the box, since Alex, Josh, Peter, you,...are the guys that make it
> happen, and you know all about of it, but this is not true for the rest.
> Believe me that you're thinking "It seems that effort was a waste of time"
> is totally wrong. Man, thinks start to be very promising in part thanks to
> your hard work making things simpler than ever.
> Thinking a bit about this, It's normal, since FlexJS is not a JS
> framework...it's a complex technology to make things simpler than ever,
> and take the state of art to this point, is hard time consuming, and very
> hard to reach.
> As documentation evolves and examples start to arise, I think more people
> will join us, and we are not to far from that (I think), but first we need
> to show examples (both running and code) on how we could get beautiful apps
> written in MXML/AS3 running in the browser. For this reason, I'd want to
> make a blog flexjs examples, but for me to make this, first I need to get
> more knowledge about things that I'm just discovering, since there's no
> docs or examples out there, but you guys know since you made it, and is
> somehow natural for you.
> In my case, all things happening in this project are  slowly going to the
> place it should be. Still is a long-distance race, but it seems like the
> hardest part is gone.
> Maybe we would need to be more clear about what people could expect about a
> 1.0 release...what things we pursue for 0.8, 0.9 and 1.0, main plot.
> so:
> - lack of interest? Nope. just the inverse! :)
> - lack of time? yes...I'm running a company, and is not easy experiment
> with new tech in this circumstance.
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to
> contribute
> Right, is not possible for all people contribute, since we are talking
> about compilers, languages, build tools, IDEs,...
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for
> you?
> I suppose that, as in many other projects, the user base should be maybe
> 90-10, and from that point expect people getting experienced with the tech,
> comes the way down and end contributing, but with the time...
> Chris, taking into account this project and its complexity, I think all is
> going really well, and maybe we all want things happing much faster, but
> maybe is not possible due to its own nature.
> 2016-10-13 9:45 GMT+02:00 piotrz <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > I've been silence cause lack of time. I've completely move to .NET WPF.
> > I'm still reading and will be reading every posts, especially those
> related
> > to FlexJS.
> >
> > I event try to from time to time encourage guys from JS team in my
> company
> > to try FlexJS.
> > Couple of weeks ago we had internal event in company - Hackaton - where
> one
> > of my colleagues wanted to try FlexJS, but cause of lack of documentation
> > about how actually do something more complex he dropped it.
> (Unfortunately
> > I
> > couldn't participate to these event, cause I would help him).
> >
> > I'm constantly trying at some point spread the world about all these
> things
> > which you are guys doing and really really wish I could help more, but I
> > have only 24 hours. :(
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Apache Flex PMC
> > piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development
> > .2333347.n4.nabble.com/Discuss-What-s-keeping-the-
> > others-from-participating-tp55730p55733.html
> > Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director General
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.avant2.es
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