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From Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com>
Subject Re: AW: [FLEXJS] AMF (was Re: AW: lib sprite flexjs,add graphics.as (canvas))
Date Tue, 01 Dec 2015 18:25:59 GMT


On 12/1/15, 10:18 AM, "Christofer Dutz" <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de> wrote:

>Well actually it sounded like: We had AMF support, but it didn't perfrom
>as well so we threw it away ...
>

No, nobody I know has worked on it.  I just have concerns about how well
it will work.  Of two implementations I found on the web, one had some
ties to GPL so I stopped looking, and the other was using getCharCode to
implement ByteArray.  Depending on how folks want to deal with older
browsers, we could try using Typed Arrays in the JS side.

Other than cyclic object graphs, I don't understand why JSON and XML can't
have decoders that convert to/from typed objects.  That's how the SOAP
code works in regular Flex today.  You might need custom serialization for
cycles (at least in the early rounds).

I understand that AMF had lower bandwidth, but I've heard that JSON can be
compressed over the wire.

-Alex

>
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
>Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Dezember 2015 18:56
>An: dev@flex.apache.org
>Betreff: Re: [FLEXJS] AMF (was Re: AW: lib sprite flexjs,add graphics.as
>(canvas))
>
>Instead of talking about throwing it away, why not discuss what is needed
>to implement AMF? It sounds to me like a great goal.
>
>I personally have never used AMF, so I have no idea.
>
>Harbs
>
>On Dec 1, 2015, at 7:47 PM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>wrote:
>
>> There is no need for a amf to json converter. You would just use a
>>different serializer instead.
>> 
>> What I'm worried about is that amf is way more powerful than json. Let
>>me name some benefits:
>> - strongly typed
>> - able to serialize cyclic object graphs
>> - uses way less bandwidth
>> 
>> Actually one of my talks at the last apachecon dealt with this entirely.
>> 
>> Giving up on this makes one of actionscripts benefits sort of useless.
>>What's the good of being able to use strong types, if these get lost on
>>the way from the server to the client?
>> 
>> If we throw overboard all the good stuff, we'll be just one if the
>> other frameworks
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Von meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet.
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>> Von: Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>
>> Datum: 01.12.2015 18:29 (GMT+01:00)
>> An: dev@flex.apache.org
>> Betreff: [FLEXJS] AMF (was Re: AW: lib sprite flexjs,add graphics.as
>> (canvas))
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Renaming this fork of the thread...
>> 
>> Well, I have no doubts that AMF is quite popular, but I guess I really
>> should have asked these questions:
>> 
>> 1) If FlexJS didn't exist and you couldn't use FlashPlayer, how would
>> you get data from the server to client (and back again)?  JSON, XML,
>> some other thing?  The reason I haven't spent any energy on AMF for
>> FlexJS is because I think folks would have had to stop using AMF
>> anyway.  Maybe there is an simple AMF-to-JSON module that folks could
>> implement on their servers to do the job so you don't have to rewrite
>>your server code.
>> 2) If FlexJS did have AMF but its performance was worse than using
>> JSON, would you still choose the slower AMF implementation?  It isn't
>> clear that implementing AMF in JS is going to perform as well as
>> browser-native JSON or flash-native NetConnection.
>> 3) What is the minimum version of IE that needs to support this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 12/1/15, 7:24 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
>>Rovira"
>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com>
>>wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Alex,
>>> 
>>> AMF is "key" for Flex in IT ecosystem. you could make a Poll and, if
>>> most of people involved in Flex would fill it, you'll be surprised of
>>> the amount of AMF people is using to comunicate with server-side.
>>> 
>>> So, this means, that for me and many others, the AMF is a requisite,
>>> (more even that Maven, that already is) to start prototyping and
>>> working with FlexJS in a day by day basis trying to change the
>>> traditional Flex 4.x layer for a FlexJS layer.
>>> 
>>> HTTPService is a must, and is a good base, but it's used in any IT
>>> app about 5% of the times. People uses RemoteObject (and some times
>>> Web Services due to some request) as main RPCs
>>> 
>>> For me AMF (and I think for many others) is the final wall to start
>>> investing time in our IT depts with FlexJS.
>>> 
>>> Take into account that there are many server side business logic out
>>> there (Java, PHP, .NET, Ruby...) thats abstract all the things
>>> happening in the server from the Flex client, and is exposed to Flex
>>> through AMF - RemoteObjects. So having AMF in FlexJS seems the
>>> potential keypoint to start trying to change Flex 4.x for FlexJS,
>>> since you don't have the need to touch server side services.
>>> 
>>> So, is a fact that AMF is key for FlexJS.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking Alex
>>> 
>>> Carlos
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2015-12-01 15:55 GMT+01:00 Vincent <vincent@after24.net>:
>>> 
>>>> +1,
>>>> All of our projects use AMF
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Le 01/12/2015 15:52, Christofer Dutz a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>>> Cause AMF is so much cooler than JSON ;-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too would like to see AMF in FlexJS ...
>>>>> Actually if we drop AMF support there's no need for me to keep
>>>>> maintaining BlazeDS any longer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> Von: Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>
>>>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Dezember 2015 15:32
>>>>> An: dev@flex.apache.org
>>>>> Betreff: Re: lib sprite flexjs,add graphics.as (canvas)
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/1/15, 5:22 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
>>>>> Rovira"
>>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of
>>>>> carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I start to think the only big problem is now to get AMF comming to
>>>>>> FlexJS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All frameworks (FlexJS, feathers, ...) out there are very cool,
>>>>>> but all lacks RPC APIs (RemoteObject, ...)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And without that is impossible to propose a starter project in a
>>>>>> company or IT dept with FlexJS...
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Carlos, why AMF?  FlexJS does have HTTPService.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Alex
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>> Director General
>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
>>> http://www.avant2.es
>>> 
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>

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