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Subject: Re: Let's talk about Flex 5
From: Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 00:49:55 +0200
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To: dev@flex.apache.org

There are lots of advantages to Flex beyond Flash, and FlexJS is =
leveraging those advantages.

FWIW, here=92s my perspective from a while back, but it=92s still =
relevant.
http://printui.com/blog/2013/01/flex-flash/

Harbs

On Dec 10, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Gary Yang <flashflexpro@gmail.com> wrote:

> Face the reality, the majority will mark their resume HTML5 developer =
after
> Apple said No Flash on Ipad, even they do not know what it means.
>=20
> the way I see it, Flex should fight with its advantages which is Flash
> Platform. there are too many javascript frameworks already.
>=20
> You can say Javascript/html can do what flash/flex can do, well, it is =
true
> when you have several hundreds or thousands lines of code, but it is =
not as
> simple as "can do", especially when you have millions of code.
>=20
> I don't understand why Flex have to do everything with everything, I =
would
> just do the right thing with the right thing.
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Jesse Nicholson =
<ascensionsystems@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>=20
>> @Jude, tbh I skimmed over half of your post. I didn't say plugins are =
bad,
>> at all, ever. Did you click the links I posted here? Did you see a =
full
>> blown actionscript virtual machine in pure JS that emulates =
everything
>> flash does in the browser? I'm not really sure there is anything more =
to
>> say after that. Just because there are 2 billion installations (if =
that
>> number is real) of flash, that really doesn't mean anything. There =
are
>> probably 100 billion installations of microsoft solitaire on windows
>> computers, that does not equal 100 billion people playing solitaire.
>>=20
>> At its height, Adobe estimated the flash developer community to be =
around 2
>> million people. When I job search, I can find about 1-2 flash =
developer
>> jobs in all of Ontario (where I live). 5 years ago, there were pages =
upon
>> pages. With all due respect, fighting the future is what killed flash =
in
>> the first place. If we bring that mentality to flex, it'll die with =
it. I
>> don't want to see that happen. My comments are not to inflame or =
offend
>> anyone.
>>=20
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:18 PM, jude <flexcapacitor@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>> Welcome to the group. You're perspective is welcome. But one thing =
I'm
>> sick
>>> of hearing and have to disagree with is the Flash is dead argument. =
If
>> it's
>>> in use it's not dead. It's used by over 2 billion people and used
>> regularly
>>> to create mobile AIR apps. The browser can't compete yet and there =
are
>>> still many shortcomings. Here is my response on Quora,
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> =
https://www.quora.com/Adobe-Flash/How-did-Flash-die-so-quickly/answer/Juda=
h-Frangipane
>>> .
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> The whole argument that plugins are bad is absurd. That's saying =
software
>>> that works with other software is bad. Plugins are one of the best
>>> advancements we have made in computer science. Being able to add =
plugins
>> to
>>> Ableton, Fruity Loops, ProTools, Photoshop, Illustrator and so on =
has
>>> vastly increased the capabilities and services that original =
software had
>>> to offer. Plugins have INCREASED the value of the original software. =
And
>>> browsers (gasp!) are also software that allow plugins.
>>>=20
>>> Without Flash and other plugins we wouldn't have had progressive and
>>> streaming video or premium content available in the browser. We =
wouldn't
>>> have chat, microphone or video camera apps in the browser. We =
wouldn't
>> have
>>> had animation, right to left text and international text layout. We
>>> wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of games or game developers or =
app
>>> developers who got started with AS3 and Flash and other plugins. And =
one
>> of
>>> the best advantages plugins have over the host software is that they =
can
>> be
>>> enabled or disabled! You have choice with a plugin where with the
>> original
>>> software you can't disable something that may be resource intensive.
>>> Without plugins we'd have apps for every single site that required
>> features
>>> the browser didn't supply or nothing at all.
>>>=20
>>> Flash and AIR have been improving and growing as a technology for =
the
>> last
>>> 10+ years. It's mind blowing that it's reaching it's stride and =
becoming
>>> one of the best platforms to develop and people are saying to throw =
it
>> out.
>>> What we need to do is get Adobe to invest more back into it (rather =
than
>>> doing the least amount without causing a revolt) or spin it off to =
it's
>> own
>>> company. That and reduce all the misinformation out there about =
plugins.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Jesse Nicholson <
>>> ascensionsystems@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I forgot to mention something that I think is worth mentioning with
>>> regard
>>>> to the debate of "can pure JS/HTML do what the flash runtime can." =
To
>>>> answer that, just look at Mozilla Shumway, a full blown AVM2 =
virtual
>>>> machine written in pure JS. Too bad it didn't have some kind of AOT
>>>> functionality.:)
>>>>=20
>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/shumway
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Jesse Nicholson <
>>>> ascensionsystems@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Like I said I'm new here, I respect everyone, I don't mean to be =
the
>>>>> armchair expert at flex and the apache-flex community. But, =
perhaps
>>> part
>>>> of
>>>>> the issues faced here is a lack of a clear goal for the future and =
a
>>> lack
>>>>> of a clear, independent identity, as a product and a team.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> Jesse Nicholson
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Jesse Nicholson
>>=20