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From Gary Yang <flashflex...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Let's talk about Flex 5
Date Tue, 09 Dec 2014 21:05:28 GMT
I do not think it is possible to implement even near features to current
Flash based Flex, There is a FlexJS project there, let the developers tell
their story,

What is Flex? Why people use it?

People use Flex when working on real complex UI that CAN NOT BE implemented
with Javascript!
The value of Flex is an extension of Flash, there are too many Javascript
based frameworks already!


On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <nicholas@spoon.as>
wrote:

> Just to be clear -- there is no AS4.  Adobe proposed the standard and
> started some work on it and then didn't proceed with it any further.
>
> I don't think we need to set a goal of a complete re-write to read a 5.0
> milestone.  I think working on some of the bigger concepts of decoupling
> some of the components to make them ready or at least more portable to
> FlexJS is a goal we can set.  Setting the bar too high I think will make it
> unattainable.
>
> -Nick
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:43 PM, <flex@dfguy.us> wrote:
>
> > I think it's a touchy subject. The flash player and adobe always seem to
> > get a bunch of flack, often unlike most other similar platforms. This
> whole
> > "proprietary" phrase is usually used as some sort of bludgeon meaning
> > intrinsically bad; which it obviously is not. But it's a difficult
> > situation though like mentioned where you have to depend on a company for
> > support and there's a lot of uncertainty there.
> >
> > So either rewrite the platform to use a new AS4 or rewrite to use a
> > different runtime like just JavaScript in the browser, you're still
> doing a
> > lot of rewriting. Then, the browser isn't exactly a runtime in terms of
> > being interpretive as opposed to precompiled. So if you target the
> browser
> > you still have to figure out some "third party" framework for mobile
> > deployment in app form right?
> >
> > What I'd like to see is the ability to something like JavaScript as an
> > option but then to actually continue to have a super charged runtime to
> > target that's actually supported to the fullest. I don't know if it's
> > really Adobe's fault regarding the plight of flash player or if it really
> > just boils down to outside forces screwing things up in one way or
> another.
> >
> > If flex became a JavaScript only framework for targeting would that
> > actually help it get used more, or would there be even more competition.
> I
> > think what might be better would to be to have a strong runtime supported
> > by a "proprietary" company properly, and then also enable to use of open
> > standards, html5, JavaScript etc within the framework itself so that you
> > could reuse a lot of the web standards code that's out there.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jesse Nicholson <ascensionsystems@gmail.com>
> > To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > Sent: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 1:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: Let's talk about Flex 5
> >
> > My 2 cents is that the project should be focusing on moving away from a
> > third-party, proprietary and frankly dead platform. I'm also not sure
> what
> > actionscript 4 has to do with anything, it's not like there will be a
> > ground-up rewrite of the entire project to port it to a new language.
> Even
> > a mass, automated conversion (were it possible) would be, in purpose,
> > purely for the benefit of yet again, maintaining compatability with a
> > third-party, proprietary platform. In fact it would be worse than that,
> it
> > would bind the project specifically to that third-party, closed source
> > target runtime. It's discussions like this that are at the root of the
> > previous concerns I've raised which can be summarized as such: is flex
> it's
> > own product, or is everyone just working for adobe.
> >
> > I know it's a lot of work, but I really think we need to replace AIR and
> > Flash Player as the target for this project. Doing so would create a
> truly
> > standalone, apache driven product future-proof, omni-platform application
> > development. I didn't want to really get into this discussion yet but,
> > since it came up...
> >
> > As for the question of AIR on iOS, Adobe created a LLVM frontend to
> convert
> > actionscript to LLVM-IR, which adds all of the benefits of LLVM for
> > optimization, then emits ARM. The runtime (which is probably C++ source,
> > since the entire Tamarin engine is C++) is precompiled already to AMR
> libs,
> > linkin is done, etc etc, lots of proprietary magic and you've got an
> final,
> > native assembly. This is called AOT or ahead of time compilation, rather
> > than using JIT (as the flash player uses) in order to comply with
> anti-jit
> > license terms of IOS development.
> >
> > The AVM2 is (mostly) open source under the Mozilla Public License, but
> has
> > recently gone missing from mozillas mercurial repos. It's tough to track
> > down, but you can still find "tamarin-redux" and get a zip of the source
> > tree. I believe the AOT compiler source code is present as well.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Gary Yang <flashflexpro@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > just to bring this up...
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Gary Yang <flashflexpro@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Java Spring is a very good example for framework evolving, for Flex,
> I
> > > > think it is the similar situation:
> > > >
> > > > The key function is
> > > > 1) Mxml
> > > > 2)Binding
> > > > 3)Data structure such as IList implementations
> > > >
> > > > on top of Mxml/Binding/Data is 1) UIComponent 2) Skinning 3)network
> > > > components
> > > >
> > > > and then  osmf, reporting, text ....
> > > >
> > > > I think from Flex5, we should modularize these into different kinds
> of
> > > > projects:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Flex data, to provide an infrastructure for 1) mxml -> as
> > generation,
> > > > 2) reactive programming(Binding); 3) related data structures;
> > > >
> > > > 2) Based on Flex data, Flex UI, to provide the basic UI
> implementation(
> > > in
> > > > Flex4 skinning way ), could be multi projects.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Based on Flex data, Network/Native components, http, websocket and
> > > peer
> > > > to peer, native devices communications.
> > > >
> > > > and then projects that specified in different fields: video, text,
> > > > reporting ....
> > > >
> > > > I see Flex as a tool sets to solve complex user interface, so Flash
> > > player
> > > > is the only way to work in desktop web, so the language has to
> express
> > at
> > > > least as much as AS3, so if possible, using Java as a language will
> be
> > > > enough to downgrade into most other languages.
> > > >
> > > > Just a little thought.
> > > >
> > > > -Gary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:06 AM, <flex@dfguy.us> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Right, it could be written in it and not cross compiled. It could
be
> > > that
> > > >> the project is what get cross compiled and then packaged with the
> > > runtime.
> > > >> I think though that this could be a good opportunity to improve the
> > > runtime
> > > >> in general as was previously talked about with the AS4 plans but I
> > guess
> > > >> we'll have to wait and continue to ask Adobe to work on it.
> > > >>
> > > >> David
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>
> > > >> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > > >> Sent: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 6:56 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Let's talk about Flex 5
> > > >>
> > > >> I don’t think that’s correct. Unless I’m mistaken, the AIR iOS
> runtime
> > > is
> > > >> written in Objective C from the get-go. (Although it might be
> written
> > in
> > > >> C++. Dunno…)
> > > >>
> > > >> Whether or not it makes sense to rewrite the AIR iOS runtime in
> Swift
> > is
> > > >> an entirely different question — which probably only the engineers
> at
> > > Adobe
> > > >> could really answer…
> > > >>
> > > >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 2:51 PM, flex@dfguy.us wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > My understanding is that the entire runtime gets cross compiled
> into
> > > >> objective c. So Adobe would have to rewrite this to use swift, but
I
> > > think
> > > >> the same process would basically be used. It's possible though that
> > > swift
> > > >> could enable additional features. The limitation on loading compiled
> > > byte
> > > >> code is purely just a licensing and not a technical limitation that
> > > imposed
> > > >> by Apple.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > David
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>
> > > >> > To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > > >> > Sent: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 1:17 AM
> > > >> > Subject: Re: Let's talk about Flex 5
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Really? The only way I know of outputting ActionScript for iOS
is
> > > using
> > > >> AIR for iOS which is just a swf with an embedded runtime.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Jun 5, 2014, at 4:26 AM, flex@dfguy.us wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> There's already the ability to cross compile to objective
c for
> iOS
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jesse Nicholson
> >
>

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