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From Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
Subject AW: The Flex PMC is broken
Date Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:30:50 GMT
What is currently making me more and more silent is the growing habit of people writing a post,
and a lot of people commenting every sentence in-line(Making it extremely hard to actually
read) causing the next person to comment every line of that post an so on. Not monitoring
the list for one day and finding 61 Posts in one thread is insane. I finally gave up following
a lot of threads here, dev and private cause I don't want to invest my time in reading and
writing of mails but getting stuff done. 

We seem to be discussing more than we are doing. So why not concentrate on doing things again?

My (Flex related) todo list currently has the following stuff on it:
- Helping Tom finish JBurg2 (outside of flex but I need that for Falcon ... still some small
issues, but it seems to be working quite well)
- Implement a JBurg2 maven plugin so we can use that to build Falcon (Actually that's already
done ;-) )
- Finishing the streamlining of Falcon (Throwing out Antlr2, Antlr3 and JFlex and replacing
all with Antlr4, Switching to JBurg2) (Making it easy for people to contribute ... the current
state is really difficult to understand)
- Getting BlazeDS ready so we could actually release it (Would make the installer a lot simpler
and 4.0 seems to be the last Maven available version we are now at 4.8 ... so releasing a
4.9 would make a difference)
- Setting up our project/sub project so we can finally start publishing SNAPSHOT versions
(Would make it a lot easier for people to be early adopters and beta-testers)
- Finishing the Mavenizer so we can release it and eventually start publishing Flex as Maven
- Finishing Flexmojos to it will be able to auto download missing Adobe artifacts (Need to
have the Mavenizer released before being able to finish this)

What's not on my list:
- Using 90% of my free time to read and write emails ;-)


PS: Please don't start commenting every line of this post :*)

Von: Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. August 2014 01:36
An: dev@flex.apache.org
Betreff: Re: The Flex PMC is broken


Obviously there a few things I can't say here re what has gone on on the private list.

> Your actions seem to indicate otherwise.
Quite the opposite - please see the number and diversity of committers that I have put forward
to vote on. Several of which have become productive members of the Apache Team. Good work

> Declaring the PMC broken and it needs to be fixed doesn’t leave room for an opinion
that it’s not broken to start with.
If that your opinion you are free to state it, IMO discussions of the private list seem to
indicate otherwise.

> I’m not going into the details of a private discussion here
This is not an isolated incident and that the call to vote has been vetoed 3 times. Issues
about the PMC have also come up on the list before. Please check the mail archives.

>  no one stated that specific types of contributions do not count.
Yes they actually have.

> Openness has more than one meaning. While openness does mean visible, it also means freedom.
If doing something “by the book” is too restrictive for a specific task, I think it’s
ridiculous to say “my way or the highway”.
There are many favours of open source, if Apache doesn't fit your style, you can always put
something up on github under a different OS license or similar.

> Instead of saying “if possible everything should be done in the open”, a more reasonable
approach is “as much as practical should be done in the open”.
The second of which IMO hasn't been done.

> Sometimes doing things privately for a period of time is the best way to actually get
it done,
It may look that way but it the long run it's more effort, which of these would be easier:
- Work on software in Apache, adding a files and fixes as required
- Work in private, then have to go though a software grant and IP clearance process

If you not a committer then the first may seem daunting, but it should be relatively easy
for a motivated person to become a committer in a short amount of time and it's less work
and pain than the second option.

Of course quite often stuff is done in private and then comes to Apache via a software grant
and that fine - as long as the PMC is involved in that process.

> I know I’ve hesitated to speak up because you’ve had very strong opinions and I’m
not interested in making waves.
There no need to make waves, discussion around these issue can be constructive or even insightful.
Alternative viewpoints are welcome.

> I was not privy to the discussions prior to the member resigning
You are if you look at the email archives.

Thanks for your input,

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