Mailing-List: contact dev-help@flex.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: dev@flex.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy)
Message-ID: <20130128071422.659776cu9u7ot6se@franklin.liquidweb.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:14:22 -0500
From: Michael Schmalle <apache@teotigraphix.com>
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: Tools vs Impl - Don't mix the two was [ASJS] Integration with
 existing JS libraries and components
References: 
 <CAAgciqp7E4WxyQFvo9subcEihH-vaxT_NLm90Rjm+FyrGAOCCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW3buzu5svXVCy4R23n5wHVh3ycsxi6=JxwKgcGbtzCDQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAgciqq=gWhWokifN3HzKoFFMaPa2Ak1JAre=5wcnBWAc4eVOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW1hY=gwGN9RnYy1evkYv38-CQshvi6dVnLWTs=yCNFdQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAgciqq0ge1p2aS-r6NBAnQD173v86-W1vzUvkyzgUcaR9TB=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8jDG+TB0YFA6ug+gdyqJNsC7HuDaq_8OZhvwYV1JYcP4BRKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW21e-t2=esX5ZGVpWYE4+--2jR=RKaX3_R=i_qdtFmzfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8jDGKr4JfX9rV_=KgCej1zGvYWEpSvO83LevZr4b7rpx3UCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW2D+6rU98NNGZjQprobaCRGEYcxm2dJjKMDbHhfqEttMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8jDG+Kvf7LJOcBeTnkzKM+wSKmKxPThRib22gnp9PE6LHJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW2Zxyawh8VQ=jFkbBk-Fqffmf1uOcwYaxVMJf-J5P-p9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8jDGJKQxSqasrSzyHHPyWF23gTNMvvf-o_fq5wTJNdP9bSLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJs+wW3YxuE-+XEc2RCe+JRfya9Xf-O-vZsPWm1_=cYkfabrbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGw=_tyDUg6heYR2qS0H3h5ssc9aj2D3yDyi1PNeT4TvaC-Syg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8jDGJieB3CSqU1LHcatWpOZU2KfUHbBb3c8z==xW9tL2-rdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130128043629.600551spr0m6h5zx@franklin.liquidweb.com>
 <CAD8jDGJk9N+0PWeYfrqwi38NdTG-eN4ijZeU_784_QNP5p6TDQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CAD8jDGJk9N+0PWeYfrqwi38NdTG-eN4ijZeU_784_QNP5p6TDQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=ISO-8859-1;
 DelSp="Yes";
 format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.8)

Frank,

My comments below only were to echo the understanding of your  
experience in the AS->JS.

When I said Job it is the emitter, the emitter is the Job, meaning the  
tool(FalconJx) is used to do the Job(emit javascript). When I design  
frameworks, I make sure there are clear dividing lines between what  
does what.

So my point was, with my work on the compiler, the emitters have NO  
bearing on my development of the tool(FalconJx). I designed the  
emitters so thy are completely decouple from the compiler in that they  
don't talk to it, it hands them the AST not the other way around.

So, stepping off on the new foot, my excitement when we first met was  
real because I know how much time you have invested in this, and I  
wanted you to understand that I am listening to what you say and value  
those "dead ends". I also appriciate that you can enable us to avoid  
them as well.

I am going to get that AMD stuff working, but like I said, I have to  
understand the js before I get it. I'm putting the MXML on hold, to do  
this as I see this is more important. Plus I have other projects in my  
life that are about to light on fire as well. :)

Mike


Quoting Frank Wienberg <frank@jangaroo.net>:

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Michael Schmalle
> <apache@teotigraphix.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Quoting Frank Wienberg <frank@jangaroo.net>:
>>
>>  Hi Alain,
>>>
>>> for Jangaroo, I answered this question here:
>>> http://markmail.org/message/**bwjwc7sxfbertu7f<http://markmail.org/message/bwjwc7sxfbertu7f>
>>> For Flex / FalconJx, it seems nobody was extremely fond of the idea to
>>> have
>>> to keep all the white-space and take care of generating JS code in the
>>> exact line of the source AS code.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, Do I have to start another thread with exclamation marks for everybody
>> to tone the .... down!
>>
>> I cannot believe this conversation is taking the spin it is right now,
>> some of the discussions the last two days have been ridiculous and serve no
>> constructive purpose to any of these "initiatives".
>>
>> Frank, Being that I am about the only one working on FalconJx "innards"
>> and conceived a way to even HAVE alternate outputs (just look at FalconJS's
>> rats nest code), I would be offended by the above statement, if I was the
>> type that actually get offended, which I'm not. (I left out the "doomed"
>> statement)
>>
>
> Sorry, Mike, I surely didn't mean to offend you. If it sounded like that, I
> apologize. You probably know I am not a native speaker, so maybe this got
> across badly.
> I just wanted to say that I brought in the Jangaroo idea to keep the
> white-space, and the common reaction was that we should (at least for the
> first iteration) go without that feature, to keep things simple and focused
> on the main problems. I accepted that, while I admit I am still a bit
> disappointed that it seems the value of this feature is not shared by
> everyone. Sorry again if I got carried away.
>
> Talking about the "doomed" statement, please don't take this out of
> context. It was my reaction on Erik's answer that sounded to me like he
> thinks debugging in Flash suffices (he put that right later on). I thought
> you share the vision that Flex must be usable for (pure) HTML5 projects to
> have a bright future. This is the reason why I support this project,
> because I believe in the HTML5 platform, but it needs better development
> support, which Flex could offer! I never said anything like Flex should
> drop the Flash or AIR target, I just said if it does not also support
> JS/HTML5 as a first class target platform, I consider it doomed (and this
> is my personal judgement).
>
>
>> I SAID I would get you going on the output you need for "your" vision(with
>> line numbers if need be) of the javascript emitter.
>>
>
> What on earth made you think I doubt that you will do so? I marvel at your
> work on FalconJx and I'm sure you are the best person to get me into it!
>
>
>>
>> I have put 100's of hours into this project and will be damned if it is
>> doomed by squabbling over implementations. I'm a tool maker, Don't confuse
>> the tool with the JOB! You and Erik are bickering about the Job, I am
>> working on the tool, please do not confuse the two.
>>
>>
> I don't get exactly what you mean by the "Job". The Goal? Before building a
> tool, you have to know what it should be used for. Erik and I seem to have
> different views on what people will use the Apache Flex tool for. I feel it
> is important to at least find out that this is so, even if you cannot
> settle the differences.
>
>
>> Well, I guess I started another thread cause I don't want this buried.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> No, I don't want this to be buried, either. I am still quite new in this
> community, so please forgive me if I stepped on your or somebody else's
> foot. It is really hard for me, having worked on the topic AS->JS for so
> many years, to not be biased toward a solution that has formed from that
> experience. So I am quite passionate about some points and I still hope I
> can help you (plural!) to not run into some of the dead-ends I already
> visited on my journey.
>
> Best,
> -Frank-
>

-- 
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com