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From Daniel Wasilewski <devudes...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Flex 5 in haxe
Date Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:19:38 GMT
I am following this this discussion carefully as well as all what is 
going on on Apache Flex from the very beginning.

Clearly if the future of Flex attached to Flash Player would be bright 
this thread should not exist at all.
But is here, and there is a lot of concerns surrounding it. I have 
recognised that long time ago and started my own project called BixBite.

If you are not familiar with it yet here is a little presentation I am 
just getting ready for public.
http://bixbite.org/BixBitePresentation.swf (hope everyone can play swf 
directly from the browser ;) )

There was a lot of talks here about approach to be taken to bring Flex 
to the next level.
One of them was the fact that in order to target multiple platforms you 
need to have a descent compiler to convert AST into native language.
That requires a lot of work and effort. Nobody here familiar with a 
scale of effort that needs to be put into such project have confidence 
it can be done in reasonable amount of time and resources due to lots of 
platform inconsistencies and the fact, that some of the platform 
specific languages and features just missing.

I took a different approach. Instead of relying on generic compiler, my 
goal is to implement a framework with a consistent set of rules, in 
native languages and platforms.
Feel a gap in missing feature territory and encapsulate it in one place. 
On top of that very abstract scripting language can be developed as well.
But my approach is a bit different from what HaXe can offer. I am not 
trying to create Esperanto language and force people to learn it.
I propose to hire native interpreters that sitting in one room, for 
dispose of all people who can speak their native languages.

This room is my framework, so and Flex can also be that kind of room.

If I will see Flex going in that direction, leverage the best practices 
of the target platforms instead to try to be a Swiss knife, I would be 
happy to share my vision in details and contribute to the project. But 
most of all, did you consider or discussed that very option well enough?


On 11/21/2012 9:59 PM, Carlos Rovira wrote:
> Hi Alex,
> I'm strong advocate to make POCs in different directions so we could end
> getting more knowledge that could end turning all efforts in a real next
> generation framework. For that reason I think we'll end over the next year
> with various groups targeting different points of views: AS3, Haxe and so
> on, as well maintaining actual codebase
> For me, in a full rewrite, the reason not to go AS3 is:
> * AS3 will be killed by its own evolution AS4
> * AVM2 will be killed by its own evolution AVMNext
> * If we could get rid off Adobe's technologies, the better. It's not only
> because we, as an open source project, should not depend heavily on
> propietary technologies (if we can), it's because we have the experience on
> how Adobe throw the towel, and that makes a precedent, so they could make
> it again. Confidence in a future depending on Adobe is something that I
> would try to avoid if possible.
> * Haxe has the key points we are asking for: One language (OOP) - multiple
> targets.
> * Haxe will serve us next AS4/AVMNext without the need of change the
> language.
> * They already has the HTML5/JS output, the actual Flash AVM output, and
> all the mobile platforms output.
> ...of course all this have sense since the proposal is "a new Flex from
> scratch".
> Your point of "Haxe is not in Apache" is not a point for me. Take into
> account that we already use other open source projects that are not in
> apache. More over, Apache is an instrument right now and even for such new
> project, we could event think in go directly to Github, if after a few more
> trys we don't get git-github support or Apache bureaucracy is not as agile
> as we need.
> I'm with you that we should start coding and making more POC and not only
> talking, but In my case my next efforts as you saw will be in Git support,
> and need to learn more about Haxe to be able to start playing with all this
> ideas.
> 2012/11/21 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>
>> On 11/21/12 12:53 PM, "Kevin Newman" <CaptainN@unFocus.com> wrote:
>>> But if we are to change languages, why not go with a language that,
>>> looks a lot like AS3 (and ports easy), addresses the language
>>> scalability issues of JavaScript (lack of classes, typing, a compiler,
>>> etc.), and can compile to JS as well as other languages? Haxe can be
>>> compiled into JS, ABC/SWF, C++, C#, etc.
>> My angle for now is not to change languages.  We can write in AS3 and
>> cross-compile to JS and maybe other languages.  Apache Flex effectively
>> owns
>> AS3 because it owns a compiler for it.
>>> Why NOT use Haxe?
>> -Haxe is not in Apache.
>> -There are lots of existing AS3 code libraries I think we should try to
>> leverage.
>> -I know how AS3 behaves on Flash.
>> But again, none of these, even in aggregate, are strong enough reasons to
>> a-priori say that some other group of folks shouldn't pursue a rewrite on
>> Haxe.
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

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