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From Erik de Bruin <e...@ixsoftware.nl>
Subject Re: Is Apache model killing this project?
Date Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:23:05 GMT

> The actual model in Apache is very old and is proving to be a failure
> in actual days. The fact that we don't have a valid workflow based on
> the voted option some months ago with Git, Github and nvie Git
> branching model is one of the things that is making this project fail.

Well, not having Git doesn't mean there isn't a valid workflow, on the
contrary. SVN is currently functioning fine, while volunteers like
yourself are helping to set up a valid Git workflow.

> Tickets voted in JIRA by community out there still are not closed
> successfully (Maven deployment,...), maybe because actual committers
> have another concept of what Flex should be and invest the time in
> other things, and people that could enter the project to make that
> happen couldn't enter since the Apache model makes it very hard (and
> that people ends investing their time in other things that have more
> possibilities).

Just to be clear, committers are NOT the only contributors to the
project. Everyone can/should help out. Find a JIRA ticket with a lot
of votes and create a patch to resolve it. Committers will notice and
if the patch checks out include it in the development branch of the

> In August my coworker (Pepe Barragan) and I was trying to contribute
> to mustella, but the apache's workflow (and our own work) make us fall
> in discouragement. Finally we are unwilling to participate. As we sure
> there are more people. Which is not good for this project.

IIRC you were trying to work on this using the temporary Git solution,
which is indeed rather involved and prone to confusion and errors. I
do know your efforts were much appreciated and certainly didn't go
unnoticed. Maybe you would find the process a bit less discouraging if
you (for the time being, while waiting for an integrated Git solution)
worked in SVN?

> Another point is that apache Flex installer was reject many times so
> people ends passing, what again is very bad, and making developers
> burn out to reach RC7...

This I do know about ;-) I was the developer you're talking about, and
my "burn out" email was indeed born in frustration, but it was
intended (much like your email is, I assume) to get people to care
again... And they did. The vote is nearly over, and there are
apparently enough +1's to release the Installer. This means that
instead of remaining stagnant since August, the project is ready for
it's second release and moving forward!

> The last problem I see is the heritage of adobe libraries and legal
> issues added that make all things go very slow or even fail to get it
> done. We are trying to save a great technology and if we are
> discussing lots of legal licenses we soon will be with a dead horse
> but with all documentation in order. If those legal problems (i.e:
> maven related) does not cause a problem for Adobe until now...less now
> than they want to quit from this technology. If things start to go ok,
> legal problems can be solved in that moment.

These issues are frustrating (7! release candidates for the
Installer), but needed. They are also a one time issues, once a valid
solution has been found/agreed upon, we don't have to worry about them
anymore and can focus on moving forward.

> So, after share all this issues... is Apache the best option for Flex?
> What do you think about it?
> Could we think other options to make this work in places like github
> or bitbucket and the return results here?

While you're always free to fork the project (I think?), moving to a
different type of version control won't make the legal (license etc.)
issues go away. I think an organisation like Apache (which provides
much more to the project than only version control) is exactly the
right place for a code base like this to grow and thrive.

Yes, it takes effort to get a like this project underway, and it is
very frustrating at times, but it is very much worth it. Please don't
give up on the project, we're only just getting started!


Ix Multimedia Software

Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht

T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl

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