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From M├ętairie, St├ęphane <serial...@ebu.ch>
Subject RE: Apache Flex roadmap page in the wiki [was: I was tired of waiting.]
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 05:57:22 GMT
For all observers (and FLEX orphans) the roadmap, or some milestones, publicly shared will
be helpful and ... comforting : many IT decision-maker wonder if they have to continue with
Flex or not. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Omar Gonzalez [mailto:omarg.developer@gmail.com] 
Sent: mardi, 2. octobre 2012 03:54
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Flex roadmap page in the wiki [was: I was tired of waiting.]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Blaine Bradbury

> On the Roadmap issue:
> I think it would be EXTREMELY useful to have a device which could show 
> the current (as close to the present knowledge as is really 
> manageable) trajectory that the Apache Flex project is taking.  On any 
> given day, there are folks hard at work contributing new things with 
> the intention to finish them.  They may never do so.  In some cases, 
> they may have expressed commitment in their own right... beyond any 
> Apache requirement per se.  In other cases, the work could have a lot 
> of support in the community and therefore pretty likely to move forward.
> Bottom line is that these ongoing efforts do tell a story and show a 
> certain geographical map toward an apparent goal that is shaped as it 
> happens.  I would love to see a Road map of this geography.  I would 
> love to share this story with customers and colleagues.  I also 
> believe that folks who wish simply to consume the software and develop 
> applications out in the market place could use this type of tool.  And 
> those folks on some level are the people who will give Apache Flex a 
> future by keeping code in production in the market place... possibly providing jobs.
> A Road map shows details of roads in a handy overview where one can 
> rationalize roads according to existing geography, yes?  A Road map is 
> a device one might use to help one get from one place to another using roads.
>  The information in a Road map is only as good as it as at the time of 
> publishing.  New Roads are created all the time.  New editions of a 
> Road map are published to show changes.  In our case, the Road map 
> could show intended paths... in italics or some such demarcation.  An 
> idea list or a wish list sounds hypothetical, not intentional.
> Road map is easier to say than *"What we are planning to do at the 
> moment before we individually or collectively decide to change our 
> minds List."*  But I do think this disclaimer could be in nice obvious 
> print just below the heading :)
> Also to note.  The content of the Road map will not magically post 
> itself somewhere, and it will probably have little value unless people 
> contribute or share.  This is very much like the rest of the Apache Flex ideal, yes?
>  The folks who have wanted a Road map have only asked that it be 
> allowed to exist if they create it, so that they might try to make it 
> work.  The more obvious things being worked on are mostly likely the 
> content targets anyhow.  A single source for logging feature progress 
> and showing revision history is just easier for some than weeding 
> through mountains of e-mail and monthly status summaries.  Why not 
> allow them to put a page up and status how they see fit.  If it sucks... kill it later.
> Lastly, I like the term "Road map", but I understand the objections.  
> I am also very protective of language that might be under attack.  
> Corporate america does not get to monopolize the term and force the 
> image of stressful project management and quarterly timelines onto the 
> term for the rest of us unless we let them.
> bb

The "Roadmap" changed to

As you can see it is not very populated, my guess would be that Apache Flex volunteers/committers
are busy working on things that are of their interest, which is not to try and compile and
maintain a Roadmap that nobody is going to adhere to.

We've had this discussion ad nauseam, I think it basically boils down to a couple of things:
1.) This is a volunteer based project, people are in and out of this project, so it is very
difficult to either a.) agree to a "roadmap" and b.) keep some web page updated with information
regarding what everyone is doing.

2.) The consensus has pretty much been against the creation of a roadmap page due to #1 as
well as other things, such as the stigma you alluded to that has been established as the expectations
for a roadmap.

You stated it yourself, "The content of the Road map will not magically post itself somewhere,
and it will probably have little value unless people contribute or share", and as you can
see by the Status of Project page, no one is updating it even tho we've agreed not to call
it Roadmap but still have the type of information people are looking for in a "roadmap". The
truth of the matter is when people volunteer their time to the project they want to work on
what interests them, I would put my money on that most of the committers would rather be coding
and getting things done as opposed to trying to keep up some roadmap/status page.

If people really want to know what's going on just check out the repository and look through
the project history. Or they could search through the mail archives, it sounds shitty but
that's just the way it is.

Bottom line is there seems to be very little interest in maintaing a web page, and much more
interest in just getting shit done. In an ideal world we would have all the time in the world
to maintain roadmaps and status pages and contribute to the project etc etc, but we don't
have all that time and so people will continue to just work on stuff they want to. When that
stuff is ready they can move it from their whiteboards or personal repositories/forks and
submit them as patches.

As Nike would say... Just do it.

Omar Gonzalez
Apache Flex PPMC

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