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From Gordon Smith <gosm...@adobe.com>
Subject RE: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
Date Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:24:13 GMT
>> we are exploring options for tooling that would either ease or automate this transition.

> ...interesting and reassuring ... : tooling to ease transition from AS3 to AS4.

You should not assume that any such tooling Adobe might produce would be an automatic AS3
-> AS4 conversion tool. Now that AS4 has been defined, we know that enough features have
been removed from AS3 that any such automatic conversion to AS4 is impractical. The porting
process requires some human intelliegence.

- Gordon

-----Original Message-----
From: sébastien Paturel [mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 6:27 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: ASC 2.0 and Falcon

I did not even know that AS2 worked on AIR mobile :) What i was afraid of, was that AIR mobile
had a different backward compatibility strategy than flash player on desktop has.
If not thats great news, and this ASNext, VMNext thing is not a survival subject for flex,
so thats great.

FYI, about AS2 on AIR Mobile i found this interresting statement from mike chambers:
"AIR apis are not exposed to AS2, but, you can run AS2 content by specifying the SWF in the
application descriptor file and creating the AIR file with ADT (in the AIR SDK)."

To complete Om's answer quoting Adobe's statements, i can also quote this one:
from http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html


The next version of ActionScript will be an evolution of ActionScript 3, but in some instances
may not be completely compatible with ActionScript 3. We expect that any migration from ActionScript
3 will be significantly less burdensome than the move from ActionScript 2 to ActionScript

Regardless, we are exploring options for tooling that would either ease or automate this transition.

Current ActionScript 3 content will continue to run in the Flash runtimes, although it may
not run in the same virtual machine as the latest iteration of ActionScript. This is a similar
model for how ActionScript 2--based content runs in Flash Player today."

There's two things i found interresting and reassuring here:
- AS3 content will continue to run in the flash runtimeS (meaning new AIR mobile versions
right? ;)).
- tooling to ease transition from AS3 to AS4.

Le 26/10/2012 23:36, Thibault Imbert a écrit :
> Hi Rick,
> Nope, think about when AS3 was introduced. Did your AS2 applications
> stopped working? No. Same thing here ;)
> We will share more about ASNext next year. I brought that up cause wanted
> to let you know guys the direction and set the right expectations. I hope
> that it is helpful.
> Thibault Imbert | sr. product manager gaming (Graphics, Language, VM,
> Compiler) | Monocle | adobe systems
> gaming.adobe.com <http://gaming.adobe.com/> | bytearray.org
> <http://bytearray.org/> | @thibault_imbert
> On 10/26/12 2:29 PM, "Rick Winscot" <rick.winscot@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thibault,
>> Does this mean when people download Flash Player when ASNext is
>> released... that they will be installing a 'package' that will run AS2,
>> AS3, and ASNext content?
>> Some detail about the anticipated deployment strategy of ASNext would be
>> helpful for us to understand what the ultimate lifespan of Flex and
>> Flex-based applications is.
>> Cheers,
>> Rick Winscot
>> On Friday, October 26, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Thibault Imbert wrote:
>>> Hi Sebastien,
>>> Just to confirm. What this means is that you guys will be able to run
>>> Flex
>>> apps in the Flash Player in the next 5 years, same for AIR by using
>>> captive runtime. Again, to make things clear, this will possible cause
>>> you
>>> guys will be targeting AS3 and AS3 APIs.
>>> To target ASNext and the new APIs, as I said before, you will have to
>>> use
>>> a Stage3D framework for UIs like Feathers or any other that may emerge
>>> in
>>> the future.
>>> Thibault Imbert | sr. product manager gaming (Graphics, Language, VM,
>>> Compiler) | Monocle | adobe systems
>>> gaming.adobe.com <http://gaming.adobe.com/> | bytearray.org
>>> (http://bytearray.org)
>>> <http://bytearray.org/> | @thibault_imbert
>>> On 10/25/12 12:50 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com
>>> (mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com)> wrote:
>>>> Yes thanks, but we need confirmation.
>>>> some can also argue that such an announcement can still leave room for
>>>> interpretation.
>>>> Adobe's representative also said that flex would be able to gain from
>>>> any enhancement made for gaming, but if flex needs to be ported to
>>>> ASNext for that, it turns out to be false statement. unless i get
>>>> something wrong.
>>>> Le 25/10/2012 21:44, charles.monteiro@gmail.com
>>> (mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com) a écrit :
>>>>> I had seen that before but had forgotten , thanks for pointing this
>>>>> out, so to summarize any 4.6 based apps will at the very least run
>>> on
>>>>> whatever runtimes are put out by adobe for the next 5 year's , that
>>>>> certainly allows for some time to figure out a forward path, pls
>>> correct
>>>>> if that's the wrong conclusion
>>>>> Sent from my Virgin Mobile Android-Powered Device
>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>> From: "Om" <bigosmallm@gmail.com (mailto:bigosmallm@gmail.com)>
>>>>> To: <flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> (mailto:flex-dev@incubator.apache.org)>
>>>>> Subject: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 3:08 pm
>>>>>  From the Adobe Flex Whitepapaper [1]
>>>>> Adobe runtime support of Flex
>>>>>> Flash Player 11.2 and Adobe AIR 3.2, which are anticipated to
>>> ship in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> first quarter of 2012, will be tested with applications built
>>> using
>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>> Flex 4.6. *Adobe will test future releases of Flash Player and AIR
>>>>>> against the Adobe Flex 4.6 SDK and maintain backwards
>>> compatibility for
>>>>>> five years.*
>>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Om
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:03 PM, sébastien Paturel
>>>>> <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com (mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com)>wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Thibault,
>>>>>> Thanks for the precision.
>>>>>> But one last info needed: will next AIR for mobile runtime will
>>> embed
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> the new vm? meaning that only ASNext projects will be able to run
>>> with
>>>>>> AIR
>>>>>> on new mobile devices / OS targetted by Adobe?
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Seb
>>>>>> Le 25/10/2012 17:53, Thibault Imbert a écrit :
>>>>>> Hi Sebastien,
>>>>>>> To confirm, such a framework like Feathers or Starling would
>>> have to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> updated to ASNext to run on the new VM.
>>>>>>> Sent from mobile, please pardon brevity/errors.
>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>> From: sébastien Paturel
>>>>>>> Sent: 10/25/2012 8:45 AM
>>>>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> (mailto:flex-dev@incubator.apache.org)
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
>>>>>>> In the short term, it will be needed by flex to run on VM3, to
>>> be able
>>>>>>> to create apps for new mobile hardware, and run better on retina
>>>>>>> Display.
>>>>>>> According to jonathan Campos, it is feasable to render flex sdk
>>> on
>>>>>>> starling for the next main release.
>>>>>>> And if i understand well what thibault said, we don't need
>>> anything
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> then that to run on next VM (for example no need to be AS4)
>>>>>>> "having a look at Feathers (work from Josh >Tynjala -
>>> feathersui.com (http://feathersui.com))
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> top of Starling, which will run beautifully in our next runtime"
>>>>>>> It still has to be confirmed, but it could be a good short term
>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>> (still relying on Adobe's runtime), to let flex the time to do
>>> more
>>>>>>> deep
>>>>>>> mutli target long term changes, even if it means starting again
>>> from
>>>>>>> scratch.
>>>>>>> If the solution is to start over, it could be the perfect time
>>> to ask
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> AS3 is the better choice for a multi target language, and if
>>> flex
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> not leverage what has been done with haxe.
>>>>>>> thats the question i was asking to Alex (i was not meaning AS4)
>>>>>>> jangaroo is great, but only for JS transcompilation, and future
>>> flex
>>>>>>> will need to target more platforms, like Haxe does.
>>>>>>> i wonder how jangaroo resolved issues with AS3 to JS
>>> compilation, that
>>>>>>> haxe resolved by dropping the feature directly from the
>>> language?
>>>>>>> Le 25/10/2012 17:01, Kevin Newman a écrit :
>>>>>>>> On 10/18/12 7:28 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yes, the community has to figure out what the essence
>>> Flex really
>>>>>>>>> is. To me, it's an rapid-development application framework,
>>> the
>>>>>>>>> combination of a procedural language with a declarative
>>> language,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> a widely-deployed runtime that can support RIAs. The
>>> runtime of the
>>>>>>>>> future for RIAs seems to be native code for mobile devices
>>> and
>>>>>>>>> HTML/Javascript for browser apps. The best procedural
>>> language is
>>>>>>>>> anything that can be compiled to these runtimes. MXML
is a
>>> perfectly
>>>>>>>>> good declarative language for UIs.
>>>>>>>> Maybe the real discussion should be less about supporting
>>> AVM3 and
>>>>>>>> more about supporting a native compile framework - something
>>> like
>>>>>>>> haXe
>>>>>>>> NME maybe (already open source). How much of Adobe's LLVM
>>> based iOS
>>>>>>>> AOT source is open? (if any)
>>>>>>>> http://www.haxenme.org/
>>>>>>>> For Javascript, there's already Jangaroo (open source):
>>>>>>>> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>>>>>>>> Kevin N.

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