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From: "Michael A. Labriola" <labriola@digitalprimates.net>
To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <flex-dev@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: RE: Starting with the Whiteboard Code
Thread-Topic: Starting with the Whiteboard Code
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Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 16:51:50 +0000
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>>So yeah, I'm all for some byte-code optimizations and some fudging of the=
 language rules (so you really can inline a constant), but I am still hopin=
g a class definition will be same everywhere so newbies have fewer >>things=
 to learn to be successful with Flex.

Understood but I think that's where we disagree and so be it. I think that =
it is important to newbies can pick up a language and certainly don't wish =
to exclude anyone. However, I think when you design a language or framework=
 around the newbie requirement we get something else. I think we need advan=
ced features that advanced developers find powerful, useful and interesting=
. Once those exist, others build upon them, distill them into simple to use=
 patterns and teach each other. We end up with a strong community. When we =
target newbies from the language side, I think we end up with a language us=
ed by newbies and ignored by more advanced devs. I think we end up with a c=
ommunity of newbies trying to teach each other and I don't think that is a =
good long term idea.

To me, whether or not the bytecode maps back to a class cleanly is a thing =
most newbies will never know. Having both a standard way to compose a class=
 and a more advanced way does not preclude someone new from using the basic=
 approach, it enables someone more advanced to do interesting things.

One of the long standing problems I had with Flex under Adobe's stewardship=
 is that it was a collection of use cases, and when you deviated from the u=
se cases to do anything more you hit a road block. It's the reason so many =
comments about private versus protected, etc. exist. A framework, to me, ne=
eds to be as flexible as possible to let people find the end goal and apply=
 it as they see fit. A product, which is what this was under Adobe, needs u=
se cases and targets a specific developer to allow them to do a specific ta=
sk.

Obviously under the Apache way we can both explore these opportunities and =
see what becomes interesting, popular and supported. I only bring these poi=
nts up as I sometimes feel there is a knee jerk reaction, this is not speci=
fic to you Alex, to doing things differently than they were... I think a fe=
w radical advances while keeping the same general usability and functioning=
 of the framework could breathe a lot of new life into it.

My 4 cents.

Mike


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