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Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 08:30:30 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CA+hb1XFM_-_YHRsBwF1vxd06jSLeJZf-1QRTe3ux=fZh=EagKg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Apache Flex logo colors
From: superabe superabe <superabe@gmail.com>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
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Enough with the logo already. The voting has determined a logo that the
majority feel is great.

In any case if Apache Flex lives up to and exceeds the expectations, that
so many have people have of it now, then even a logo less worthy than what
is at #1 now, will be forgiven.
But if it turns out to be a lot of noise with no substance, even the best
logo designed by the worlds best designer(s) will not save it.


On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Amine Rahmouni <amine.rahmouni@gmail.com>wr=
ote:

> I see that my msg generated a lot of misunderstanding so please allow me =
to
> clarify myself,
>
> I would rather prefer doing so by some sort of auto Q&A, but of course it=
=92s
> only IMVHO, so please be indulgent
>
>
> but before that:
>
> @Bertrand
>
> When I talked about second thought that was about final details and in no
> way about the logo choice! I reread myself and it=92s honestly easily
> confusing so my bad! sorry about that!
>
>
>
> @Tomasz
>
> I want to make some clarifications of some of your comments, just to be
> clear I=92m not judging your work and sorry if it seemed that way, you di=
d a
> great job, it=92s not about whether it=92s good or not, it=92s about what=
 suits
> best Flex=92s vision & strategy, I understand that you lacked such elemen=
ts
> while doing the proposition, but aren=92t these part of the raw material =
we
> use to craft a new identity? It=92s not too late to integrate them for fi=
nal
> decisions
>
>
>
> so
>
>
>
> *Why professional opinions at this level?*
>
> An optimal scenario would have been going through the whole formal proces=
s
> as you described it Tomasz, but it=92s not necessarily crucial for our ca=
se
> because we ended up with enough professional propositions
>
> but again I think that at this level decisions become even harder! devil =
is
> in the details right?
>
> I said ask some ADs or CDs (starting with Fuse=92s ones of course) to get=
 an
> Advertising POV that we could enrich with our knowledge of the situation,
> but neither them nor us are the target of the branding, and to get to tha=
t
> target we need to be empathic, quite simple and paradoxically difficult
> thing to do!
>
>
>
> *How color choice is more complicated than the choice of the logo itself?=
 *
>
> well, the proposition choice step was pretty simple as we had to judge on
> first impression and on superficial perception elements (composition,
> curves, typo, shapes) and Fuse=92s popped out pretty quickly
>
> This second step though is about more subconscious elements where we shou=
ld
> rework the final touches in more detailed manner with the empathy element
> really included; again we are unfortunately not the main target.
>
>
>
> *will every decision on the ML produce such noisy debates?*
>
> no, because again it=92s a matter of perception, marketing, strategy.
> subjects that are by nature controversy; after that, most of the work wil=
l
> be technical where logic will be the master word and where PPMCs will
> naturally play the role they are intended to!
>
> actually we all know there will be very hot debates but it will be much
> less noisy and more objective! (singletons discussion already pointing it=
=92s
> nose!^^)
>
>
>
> *Who decides? who votes?*
>
> I don=92t really care about who=92s making the decision as far as these p=
ersons
> have normal common sense and had maximum of information, angles and POVs,
> and I totally trust and accept the PPMCs choice, I just want to make sure
> they do have required elements
>
>
>
> *How to proceed?*
>
> I think a better process to get things done is by answering Why Not
> questions instead of the Whys and it will significantly reduce scenarios
>
>
>
> For example: and again only my opinions:
>
> *Why not the Orange Logo?*
>
> Because it reminds of the HTML5=92s one, and please don=92t tell me it do=
esn=92t
> matter as MS or Google resemblances, do I really need to remind you the
> huge armada getting behind Flash is Dead slogan and how desperate a simil=
ar
> logo color would seem to those people, which hilariously are generally ve=
ry
> pragmatic smart developers but very religious and doctrinous when it come=
s
> to technology sides and love so please don=92t tell me to be logic or
> pragmatic, marketing is about perception as someone pointed it out in the
> ML and hell no! perception and love have nothing to do with logic!
>
>
>
> *Why not the Red Logo?*
>
> Because it reminds too much of Flash Pro! yes it still depends on the
> platform but it=92s no more Adobe, Apache Flex needs a new start, new
> identity (that=92s what we are doing here, right?) and even if Adobe will
> still support Flex it=92s better to give some sort of separation and a
> corporate partnership image (as the one between Adobe and Google for
> indexing swf content for example) rather than a nostalgic former ownershi=
p
> image (the father that gave his son to adoption but still follows him to
> the new adopting family, not very healthy for the child, don=92t you thin=
k?)
>
>
>
> *Why not a variable color branding?*
>
> Personally I do like this option, but I do also believe that it=92s a
> double-edged sword! can be very efficient and really reflect the
> flexibility image, but can also be very confusing and ruin the branding i=
f
> not properly used.
>
> so please, for those who think this is a bad idea, make your point.
>
>
>
> One last thing:
>
> for those who think logo is not that important and we should move on to
> serious stuff (code) well, guys we inherited a product with a heavy
> history, Flex is different from other Apache=92s projects, PROs of that h=
ave
> been discussed in yesterday=92s live meetings but there are CONs too, it
> inherited a big amount of free hate from various kinds of people and for
> different reasons. Add to that the epic November=92s PR fail that created=
 new
> range of feelings =85betrayal!
>
>
> Developers created the open source ideology to realize their vision of th=
e
> perfect idealistic world defying centuries of human injustice and miserly
> thirst of money!
>
>
> But guess what, flex was born on the other side of the wall, he=92s an
> outsider; a new member in a family where you have to prove yourself, shar=
e
> the same values and make them forget about your still haunting past (the
> runtime) but some will never forget that and will always blame you for it=
!
>
>
> so no, Flex is not like all children! we can=92t go out directly playing =
with
> code and pretending we always belonged to the town!
>
>
>
> Enough analogies for tonight, I hate the fact that I can=92t write short
> messages, so thanks for getting to this point, I think I=92m going to sto=
p
> here! ^^
>
>
>
>
> 2012/2/3 Maciek Sakrejda <m.sakrejda@gmail.com>
>
> > A disclaimer: I'm not trying to be antagonistic--I say what I say
> > because I care about the project.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> > <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Apache Flex is about creating *useful code*, not logos.
> >
> > That's a flippant argument. I can appreciate wanting to move on, but
> > the project's image is as important to its success as its code.
> >
> > > IMO there's two decisions left to make:
> > >
> > > a) Do we select one color (or combination) for the logo, or allow
> > > multiple variants
> > >
> > > b) Which is the color or variant selected.
> >
> > I think at least the balance issue (raised by James Ong in this
> > thread) should also be addressed. Some aspects of design are science
> > (based on cognitive science and the way human perception works) as
> > much as art. I'll even accept "you're crazy--the logo is perfectly
> > balanced" or "we're intentionally going for an unbalanced logo to
> > underscore flex themes x, y, and z," but I think saying it's just not
> > important is a mistake.
> >
>

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