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From Amine Rahmouni <amine.rahmo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Flex logo colors
Date Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:17:06 GMT
I see that my msg generated a lot of misunderstanding so please allow me to
clarify myself,

I would rather prefer doing so by some sort of auto Q&A, but of course it’s
only IMVHO, so please be indulgent

but before that:


When I talked about second thought that was about final details and in no
way about the logo choice! I reread myself and it’s honestly easily
confusing so my bad! sorry about that!


I want to make some clarifications of some of your comments, just to be
clear I’m not judging your work and sorry if it seemed that way, you did a
great job, it’s not about whether it’s good or not, it’s about what suits
best Flex’s vision & strategy, I understand that you lacked such elements
while doing the proposition, but aren’t these part of the raw material we
use to craft a new identity? It’s not too late to integrate them for final


*Why professional opinions at this level?*

An optimal scenario would have been going through the whole formal process
as you described it Tomasz, but it’s not necessarily crucial for our case
because we ended up with enough professional propositions

but again I think that at this level decisions become even harder! devil is
in the details right?

I said ask some ADs or CDs (starting with Fuse’s ones of course) to get an
Advertising POV that we could enrich with our knowledge of the situation,
but neither them nor us are the target of the branding, and to get to that
target we need to be empathic, quite simple and paradoxically difficult
thing to do!

*How color choice is more complicated than the choice of the logo itself? *

well, the proposition choice step was pretty simple as we had to judge on
first impression and on superficial perception elements (composition,
curves, typo, shapes) and Fuse’s popped out pretty quickly

This second step though is about more subconscious elements where we should
rework the final touches in more detailed manner with the empathy element
really included; again we are unfortunately not the main target.

*will every decision on the ML produce such noisy debates?*

no, because again it’s a matter of perception, marketing, strategy.
subjects that are by nature controversy; after that, most of the work will
be technical where logic will be the master word and where PPMCs will
naturally play the role they are intended to!

actually we all know there will be very hot debates but it will be much
less noisy and more objective! (singletons discussion already pointing it’s

*Who decides? who votes?*

I don’t really care about who’s making the decision as far as these persons
have normal common sense and had maximum of information, angles and POVs,
and I totally trust and accept the PPMCs choice, I just want to make sure
they do have required elements

*How to proceed?*

I think a better process to get things done is by answering Why Not
questions instead of the Whys and it will significantly reduce scenarios

For example: and again only my opinions:

*Why not the Orange Logo?*

Because it reminds of the HTML5’s one, and please don’t tell me it doesn’t
matter as MS or Google resemblances, do I really need to remind you the
huge armada getting behind Flash is Dead slogan and how desperate a similar
logo color would seem to those people, which hilariously are generally very
pragmatic smart developers but very religious and doctrinous when it comes
to technology sides and love so please don’t tell me to be logic or
pragmatic, marketing is about perception as someone pointed it out in the
ML and hell no! perception and love have nothing to do with logic!

*Why not the Red Logo?*

Because it reminds too much of Flash Pro! yes it still depends on the
platform but it’s no more Adobe, Apache Flex needs a new start, new
identity (that’s what we are doing here, right?) and even if Adobe will
still support Flex it’s better to give some sort of separation and a
corporate partnership image (as the one between Adobe and Google for
indexing swf content for example) rather than a nostalgic former ownership
image (the father that gave his son to adoption but still follows him to
the new adopting family, not very healthy for the child, don’t you think?)

*Why not a variable color branding?*

Personally I do like this option, but I do also believe that it’s a
double-edged sword! can be very efficient and really reflect the
flexibility image, but can also be very confusing and ruin the branding if
not properly used.

so please, for those who think this is a bad idea, make your point.

One last thing:

for those who think logo is not that important and we should move on to
serious stuff (code) well, guys we inherited a product with a heavy
history, Flex is different from other Apache’s projects, PROs of that have
been discussed in yesterday’s live meetings but there are CONs too, it
inherited a big amount of free hate from various kinds of people and for
different reasons. Add to that the epic November’s PR fail that created new
range of feelings …betrayal!

Developers created the open source ideology to realize their vision of the
perfect idealistic world defying centuries of human injustice and miserly
thirst of money!

But guess what, flex was born on the other side of the wall, he’s an
outsider; a new member in a family where you have to prove yourself, share
the same values and make them forget about your still haunting past (the
runtime) but some will never forget that and will always blame you for it!

so no, Flex is not like all children! we can’t go out directly playing with
code and pretending we always belonged to the town!

Enough analogies for tonight, I hate the fact that I can’t write short
messages, so thanks for getting to this point, I think I’m going to stop
here! ^^

2012/2/3 Maciek Sakrejda <m.sakrejda@gmail.com>

> A disclaimer: I'm not trying to be antagonistic--I say what I say
> because I care about the project.
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> > Apache Flex is about creating *useful code*, not logos.
> That's a flippant argument. I can appreciate wanting to move on, but
> the project's image is as important to its success as its code.
> > IMO there's two decisions left to make:
> >
> > a) Do we select one color (or combination) for the logo, or allow
> > multiple variants
> >
> > b) Which is the color or variant selected.
> I think at least the balance issue (raised by James Ong in this
> thread) should also be addressed. Some aspects of design are science
> (based on cognitive science and the way human perception works) as
> much as art. I'll even accept "you're crazy--the logo is perfectly
> balanced" or "we're intentionally going for an unbalanced logo to
> underscore flex themes x, y, and z," but I think saying it's just not
> important is a mistake.

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