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From Ariel Jakobovits <arielj...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Date Thu, 23 Feb 2012 05:07:08 GMT
I like what Cortlandt is saying here. While I don't disregard a new compiler or outputting
HTML as worthy goals, they seem like long term goals to me.

And while Adobe is focusing Flash Player on gaming, I don't see how that will negatively affect
Flex since we already have the features we need to develop awesome enterprise apps. I don't
see why, given Adobe's roadmap, we can't expect to build Flash and AIR apps as we have been
for the next 10 years or more.

While I don't quite see how important the WYSIWYG tools are, I do think that improving our
Spark controls, skins, build tools, IDEs, docs, educational materials, and designer/developer
workflows would help strengthen our community and our productivity.

Cortlandt, plus one for writing this post.
Ariel Jakobovits
Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
Phone: 650-690-2213
Fax: 650-641-0031
Cell: 650-823-8699

 From: Cortlandt Winters <cort@cortwinters.net>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; jeffry@dot-com-it.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Hi Jeffrey,

If anything is more frustrating than the Me 2's to expanding and improving
existing features it's the constant whining and noise about what adobe
could have done or isn't willing to do, or speculation about totally
throwing away the baby with the bathwate0,r or core framework features for
some conceptual idea that would take years to implement in order to cover a
niche case.

Actionscript is a good language
The Flex 3 mx components were awesome.
The Flex 4 spark ones are well designed and have the potential to be
awesome. Adobe has comitted to finishing the work up.

What we need to do as a community for v5 is to support that and to show
that a couple hundred thousand experienced UI designer/programmers can do
better than what is currently out there for interaction design and
prototyping. Rely on the fact that the Adobe guys can deliver with falcon,
they've been investigating these issues for a while now. If falcon
under-impreses lets see what alternatives we can come up with, not before.

But people, lets stick with the program, at least as it exists.

There are 3 pieces of low hanging fruit that flex developers should be
focusing on now as a community.

1) creating some good training apps.
2) create some decent skins so that a programming team of 2 doesn't have to
go html because they can't afford the ducats to skin their app otherwise
(assuming that one believes the hype that such will be easy with html in
days to come)
3) create the kick-ass prototyping tool that catalyst wanted to be.

I'm not sure that I would contribute to design view, but I certainly could
do so if it is flex rather than java based. And I can guarantee you that
I'll be contributing to some sort of designing and prototyping tool in the
next two years as that's the new frontier. Catalyst failed, Html css design
tools suck, css sucks without a good design tool to support it. When I saw
Calalyst I totally wanted to start working on my own tool because I felt
that it missed on so many critical points and I saw it as a market for the
future. But I'm just one dude with plenty of side projects as it is. Still,
I feel that there are easily 20-30k developer/interaction designers that
are the best in the world at what they do ready to take on this task for
the fun of it if they have the time to do so.

Right now we have flash content and the fact that it's (finally) become
easy to use in flex. And no way to create good visual content for html.

I used Laszlo for 3 years until flex 3 came out and what killed Laslzo was
the lack of any good wysiwyg design tools.

Design tools will determine the success of the next internet application
framework. Nothing else.

Ignore them at your peril.
Flex 3 and Flex 4 components both need them.

I think it could be a huge help to add the design view to the community. At
the very least least a dozen folk will look at it and it will either inform
them on how to do it better or they will keep in in mind until at some
point in the future it becomes important.

I challenge all readers here

Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
prototyping tool. We've got native regular expressions, hell we can create
our own efficient compilers in actionscript now. Bitmap rendering, sound,
video, fancy datasets, nice layout and text frameworks.

If we could get a full html rendering engine. That's the only thing I can
think of that would be better than a good prototyping and design tool.

Whether it's based on design view or runtime rendering like the old flex
style explorer, which is more the direction I'd like to go. This should be
the primary focus of Apache flex 5.

Fancy internal rewirings should come after that.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Jeffry Houser <jeffry@dot-com-it.com>wrote:

> On 2/22/2012 11:41 AM, Dimitri k. wrote:
>> From: "Jeffry Houser" <jeffry@dot-com-it.com>
>>>  I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>>>  Honestly, I personally could care less about design view.  It made
>>> sense when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and accessible
>>> to anyone.  I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to fulfill that role,
>>> though.
>>>  Maybe you haven't read my email which started this thread: This
>> discussion started because Deepa from Adobe said that it could be a
>> possibility, and said that if sufficient interest for it was shown on the
>> ML, it will help make it happen.
>  This is a high traffic mailing list; so I get frustrated with the
> occasional barrage of "me too/+1" non-vote-thread posts which add nothing
> to any discussion.
>  I question how many of the people who want this are willing to put time
> and effort into maintaining it.
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
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