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From "flex@rduartes.net" <f...@rduartes.net>
Subject Re: So, what should we do first?
Date Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:13:34 GMT
Hi Jonathan,
I guess that what you refer to as Sandbox would be just a grouping of what I'm calling features
branches, in a sense that we would have something like /sandbox/desktopCalloutButtonByJonathan,
and this is what I was referring to a feature branches. That would in fact prevent Sandbox
from being a giant experimental code dumping ground and be just a organizing folder/branch.
I completely agree on that. See, we're talking basically the same thing here... :)

From: "Jonathan Campos" <jonbcampos@gmail.com>
Sent: quinta-feira, 5 de Janeiro de 2012 10:01
To: flex@rduartes.net, flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: So, what should we do first?

Just to expand on what I said earlier. I am hoping we don't agree on
removing sandbox.

Sandbox is a really important working area for each person. The big thing
is that sandbox isn't just a giant dumping ground. Instead it is a giant
dumping ground per person. This was I have my section of experimental code
vs someone else. Everyone can quickly go through the various sandboxes and
see the experimental work each person has, see if they want to work on
their experiments, which will lead to the momentum to having a feature
including back in trunk.

Sandbox is especially important as we don't have a roadmap and there isn't
a direct path for people to program down. On most projects you have a focus
or agreed goal and developing branches in that direction is simple. Not the
same as what we are doing here.
On Jan 5, 2012 2:41 AM, "flex@rduartes.net"  wrote:

> Hi,
> I can safely say that I have a bit of experience using Subversion to
> manage a long running project with a big development team across several
> technologies and the one thing I'm pretty sure of is that, if not managed
> correctly from the onset, Subversion could be a nasty beast to handle.
> I'll add my suggestion in here about Subversion organization as I've been
> giving it a lot of thought lately and I've come to some conclusions/ideas
> that might be of interest.
> 1. I'd use a main TRUNK branch that would hold a releasable version of the
> project. If we are to implement the concept of nightly builds, I'd say they
> come out of this main branch;
> 2. I'd still create a separate branch for each released version grouped in
> a RELEASED or TAGS branch. We would end up having something like this:
> /released/v4.7 and /released/v5.0. This would be important if we ever have
> (and want) to release fixes and patches for a particular version. These
> branches are created from TRUNK when a voting for release is determined;
> 3. Every development, big or small, would be done under a feature branch
> taken out of TRUNK. A feature branch per development. These feature
> branches would be refreshed regularly with code from TRUNK and would be
> merged back (and closed) to TRUNK when the development is finished and
> ready to be integrated into the main stream after such action is voted by
> the group. When different feature branches have dependencies between them,
> they should decide which would be the prime branch that would carry changes
> from both to TRUNK, this one being refreshed from the dependent branch and
> TRUNK. The dependent branch would be merged to the prime branch when it
> finishes its development and the prime branch would be merged to TRUNK when
> it finishes its development (and has received all merges from the dependent
> branch);
> 4. Bug fixing for bugs found in a particular version would be done in that
> version's RELEASE branch, or a sub-branch thereof and then merged upwards
> to TRUNK (and to any released versions if we determine its important enough
> to have it fixed in those - I'm thinking security bugs for instance).
> I believe that using feature branches, we can have long running
> developments without having the need for a generic long term SANDBOX branch
> that can very easily get polluted if we decide not to carry something to
> TRUNK. If we opt to not release patches to released versions, then there's
> effectively no real need to have separate release branches (though it makes
> it easier to track down bugs found in a particular version). I also realize
> that some of these ideas can be achieved by simply using revision numbers
> as a tag system, but since branches are Subversion core concept for tagging
> and divergent development control, I'd use those instead.
> Just my two cents on the subject. Sooner or later we'll have to vote on
> this, especially if Adobe is about to commit the source code.
> Cheers,Rui
> ----------------------------------------
> From: "Alex Harui" 
> Sent: quinta-feira, 5 de Janeiro de 2012 7:15
> To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" 
> Subject: Re: So, what should we do first?
> Maybe the mentors will guide us here.  I seem to have the impression that
> the trunk should always be the release.  It can never be in a state that
> isn't a certified release.  I think that may be because our "product" is
> just source code, and folks shouldn't have to navigate through tags to get
> the latest.
> I'm not sure I want to involve Git.  The link someone posted seems to just
> suggest that you branch downward from trunk, which is what I'm suggesting.
> However, I did like some of the naming scheme.
> So to revise a bit:  trunk would always be the latest released version,
> staging would be the place we ready the next released version.
> Develop would be the place short term fixes would go.
> The reason I am suggesting a fourth sandbox branch for longer term work is
> that I think some folks are planning to do some serious refactoring which
> could impede the progress of short term fixes if refactoring happens in the
> base classes.
> Me, I'd rather start over than re-factor, but that's a thread for another
> day.
> On 1/4/12 9:52 PM, "Jonathan Campos"  wrote:
> > As someone that has worked with an Apache like project before I can say
> > that the sandbox approach is very very help and would prefer to keep it.
> >
> > Branches are meant to go back into the trunk eventually, however the
> > sandbox may never go into the trunk and have various crazy changes.
> >
> > It's been helpful to me before.
> > On Jan 4, 2012 11:33 PM, "Nicholas Kwiatkowski"  wrote:
> >
> >> I would have to agree with Jeffery.  Almost all of the projects I've
> seen
> >> that use SVN are organized in a Trunk/Branch/Tag method.  I don't see
> any
> >> reason for us not to mimic the same.
> >>
> >> I also think that long-term 'projects' and short-term be given the same
> >> treatment.  Each gets its own branch, and when completed (or when it is
> >> stable enough to be brought into the main trunk) and voted on, it is
> merged
> >> into the main trunk.  When we are ready for a release (4.7, 5.0, etc),
> the
> >> trunk is tagged with that version number and life goes on.
> >>
> >> I've not worked on any projects quite this large before, but for just
> about
> >> every project I have worked on some variation of this method seems to
> have
> >> worked pretty well.  What is nice about it to is when working on a
> feature,
> >> you really only have to concern yourself with your branch, and not about
> >> progressing it through multiple multiple branches and merging it
> multiple
> >> times.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Nick Kwiatkowski
> >>
> >>  Telecom Systems Engineer, Video and Voice Systems
> >>
> >>  Michigan State University Telecommunications Systems Department
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Adjunct Professor within the Telecommunications, Information Studies
> and
> >> Media Department at Michigan State University
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  (t) 517-432-2528        (f) 517-353-6633       (h) 517-853-9050
> >>
> >> From: Jeffry Houser
> >> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Cc:
> >> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:56:47 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: So, what should we do first?
> >>
> >>  I can honestly say it's been a long time since I looked at the public
> Flex
> >> SVN repo; so I'm not sure the extent of what is in there or how it is
> >> organized.
> >>
> >>  Most projects I've worked on have used a "Trunk/Branch/Tag" approach.
>  To
> >> map:
> >>
> >> * Released sounds kind of like tags; which is a full snapshot in time
> >> that--presumably--doesn't change.
> >> * Stable sounds kind of like Trunk, which is the primary working branch
> for
> >> the next version.
> >> * Sandbox/Unstable sound like branch; which are different working
> copies.
> >>  They often start as an off-shoot of the trunk; presumably to be
> combined
> >> back in at some future point.
> >>
> >>  Is it worthwhile to separate "long term development" (Sandbox) ) vs
> "Short
> >> term stuff development" (UnStable)?  I assume we wouldn't want to do
> that
> >> development in the same sub-branch; but is there a reason to make the
> >> distinction between short term and long term development?
> >>
> >>  Beyond that, I don't have a strong opinion either way.
> >>
> >> On 1/4/2012 7:42 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> >>
> >>> I¹m loving the ideas and energy on this list so far.  And so, the
> subject
> >>> question needs to be answered:  What should we (the committers in this
> >>> project) do first?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To do so without getting de-stabilized by the longer term projects, we
> >>> should agree on a branch strategy.  It sounds like many Apache projects
> >>> have multiple branches like:
> >>>     -Sandbox:  Anything that doesn¹t fall over immediately can go here
> >>>     -Unstable: Things that are being polished for release can go here
> >>>     -Stable:  The release candidate goes here.
> >>>     -Released:  The latest release.
> >>>
> >>> Long term projects would go in Sandbox and shorter term stuff would go
> in
> >>> Unstable and get synched to Sandbox if required.
> >>>
> >>> Most of you are volunteers trying to scratch out spare time to make
> >>> contributions, but some of us have all day to work on this stuff.  I am
> >>> thinking of splitting time between long-term work and short term work
> and
> >>> use JIRA to guide what short-term work I do.
> >>>
> >>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


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