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From Stephen Agyepong <stephenagyep...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Mifos/Stellar Integration WAS: [Fwd: My Intro and Mojaloop]
Date Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:22:11 GMT
 Myrle,

It is a little complicated than this.
The issue as I understand it is that the software to run money transfer has
to be PCI/ISO 27001, etc certified
According to our contacts, with the BOG warning, it is going to be
difficult to get the necessary approval to proceed.
We have not given up on it but it is a very slow process at this point.

I have looked at/played with the Stellar/Fineract Bridge code. I will say
it is an outstanding piece of code.
Thank you very much for putting out such a high quality software.

Thanks

Stephen

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:03 AM, Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org> wrote:

> Hey Stephen,
>
> While it is possible to trade lumens (a crypto currency with some
> properties similar to bitcoin) on the Stellar network, that’s not the main
> use case. The main use case is for tracking fiat currencies in a
> transparent, safe way.
>
> Unless the Bank of Ghana is also objecting to old-fashioned check writing
> or tracking debts in an SQL database, the text you cite would not apply to
> using Stellar for transferring fiat currencies.
>
> In the Stellar system, lumens are used as a currency-neutral reward system
> for providing a piece of the distributed infrastructure. You would only buy
> them to pay to make transactions (a fraction of a cent per transaction).
>
> This may or may not change your approach to Stellar, but it was important
> to me to set the record straight.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle
> The committer who did the work on the Mifos/Stellar bridge
>
> On Wed 31. Jan 2018 at 05:05 Stephen Agyepong <stephenagyepong@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>>
>> We are currently in a state of flux given recent development in Ghana.
>> Micro-finance companies are no longer allowed to engage in money transfer.
>> The Bank of Ghana also recently cautioned the public on the use of virtual
>> or digital currencies in the country.
>> The central bank said it “has taken notice of recent developments in the
>> use, holding, and trading of virtual or digital currencies such as bitcion”
>> and “wishes to notify the general public that these activities in digital
>> currency are currently not licensed under the Payments System Act 2003 (Act
>> 662).”
>>
>> I am hopeful things will change and we will be able to proceed. I will be
>> happy to volunteer as the  Full Stack Developer, since I have done work
>> assessing the gaps and remaining work for the Stellar/Fineract bridge. I
>> looked at how we can bridge Fineract with other digital currencies with
>> Stellar as the default.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:32 AM, Ed Cable <edcable@mifos.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Since this thread has likely fallen below everyone's radars, I wanted to
>>> bring it to attention once more as the community is still eager to see it
>>> brought to completion.
>>>
>>> I had a recent conversation with Tunde from Stellar and their developers
>>> are standing by, ready to assist once we have some concrete use cases from
>>> pilot organizations identified. Since so much time is transpired we'll have
>>> to identify how the points of integration with the Stellar SDK has changed.
>>>
>>> We have a number of outstanding tasks where we could use volunteers
>>>
>>> MFIs/Financial Institutions - we're still seeking two organizations to
>>> pilot the integration to demonstrate a money transfer service - should be
>>> two separate legal entities, within the same country, using or willing to
>>> use Fineract, and willing to use Stellar
>>>
>>> 1) Full Stack Developer - Assess the gaps and remaining work for the
>>> Stellar/Fineract bridge including changes in Stellar SDK between now and
>>> time of creating bridge.
>>> 2) Product Manager - translate these gaps into user stories for a
>>> volunteer to implement
>>> 3) Front-End Developer - implement the UI screens detailed in wireframes
>>> and for additional use cases needed by pilot org
>>> 4) Mobile Developer - complete UI flows for the initial use cases for
>>> initiating transfer via mobile banking app.
>>>
>>> See the wiki page at https://cwiki.apache.org/
>>> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=70256854 for full background on
>>> the work to date and wireframes for the UI.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:05 AM, Stephen Agyepong <
>>> stephenagyepong@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ed,
>>>>
>>>> We are working on a Stellar wallet that we want to integrate with
>>>> Fineract. Please see the attached screenshots. We made a lot of progress
>>>> but there is still much to be accomplished. We intend to make it possible
>>>> to do money transfers using an integrated Stellar/Fineract. We will be
>>>> happy to pilot this work. We wanted to polish it up a bit before making it
>>>> public but if you are curious you can see it in action at:
>>>> http://dcubedev.com/ and github at: https://github.com/
>>>> dcubedev/dcubeapp
>>>>
>>>> It is designed to work with any underlying payment platform not just
>>>> Stellar though.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Ed Cable <edcable@mifos.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So as not to hijack James' thread on Mojaloop, I want to divert part
>>>>> of the
>>>>> conversation around our existing Stellar/Mifos bridge on Apache
>>>>> Fineract
>>>>> 1.0 to a separate thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> As background, Myrle and Bartek invested a significant amount of effort
>>>>> into the bridge but due to lack of concrete use cases to implement,
>>>>> development was put on hold.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some additions to the bridge itself, and the front-end implementation
>>>>> of
>>>>> the UI along with a solidified use cases were needed to proceed
>>>>> forward.
>>>>> All of this project history and analysis has been documented on this
>>>>> wiki
>>>>> page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.act
>>>>> ion?pageId=70256854
>>>>>
>>>>> I've struggled over the past year to get contributors to wrap up the
>>>>> remaining work and have cycle through a couple different volunteers who
>>>>> were going to take it on. I'm now working with Denila to fully bake
>>>>> out the
>>>>> remaining work as clear user stories that a dev can pick up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would still like to see this bridge get completed and work with some
>>>>> users in the community who would like to test out this service. Since
>>>>> so
>>>>> much time has elapsed we have missed our opportunity to be the first
>>>>> financial inclusion use case on Stellar but I feel it's still a
>>>>> valuable
>>>>> integration even if it's just for a proof concept.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I might be getting hung up on the sunk cost fallacy, and not
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> to let go of all the time and effort Myrle and team invested...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Should we continue trying to complete this integration with current
>>>>> Apache Fineract 1.0 or turn attention towards a bridge that's
>>>>> compatible
>>>>> with Fineract CN
>>>>> 2) Are there users in the community that want to pilot this first as
a
>>>>> domestic money transfer service? There was a great deal of interest
>>>>> previously but difficulty in getting concrete use cases. We'd require
>>>>> two
>>>>> separate financial institutions running different instances of Apache
>>>>> Fineract.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:03 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Intro and Mojaloop
>>>>> To: dev <dev@fineract.apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey James,
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I've had the chance to take a closer look.  It's an interesting
>>>>> project.  I have a few comments and then a few questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments:
>>>>> 1.) Unfortunately several of the GitHub links you included were not
>>>>> reachable for me.  Not all of them, but several of them.
>>>>> 2.) As far as I can tell, as a payments transfer system, this has very
>>>>> little functionality overlap with Fineract or Fineract CN.
>>>>> 3.) Since this is a Ripple fork, it should be no surprise that it has
>>>>> massive overlap with a different Ripple fork that we've seen in this
>>>>> community before: Stellar.
>>>>> 4.) I agree that push payments, processed immediately, are the right
>>>>> way to
>>>>> go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Questions:
>>>>> 1.) When we wrote the Stellar bridge one of the reasons it never
>>>>> reached deployment was the lack of existing deployments and users of
>>>>> the Stellar network.  (With the recent announcement that IBM and
>>>>> Stellar will be partnering this may yet change) Is someone deploying
>>>>> mojaloop?
>>>>> 2.) What, in your view, are the major differences between mojaloop and
>>>>> Stellar? What are the advantages to mojaloop?
>>>>> 3.) Is someone at LevelOne considering implementing a
>>>>> Fineract-mojaloop bridge component similar to the Fineract-Stellar
>>>>> bridge component we've already written?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Myrle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 9:31 PM, James Dailey <jamespdailey@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Fineract'rs:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I joined this list recently and would like to introduce myself.
 I
>>>>> > formulated the Mifos project in 2001 when working at the Grameen
>>>>> Technology
>>>>> > Center and am current chair of the Mifos Initiative - which is the
>>>>> group
>>>>> > that contributed the Fineract Code.  While I don't code myself,
I
>>>>> have
>>>>> > contributed time and energy over the past 16 years to make financial
>>>>> > inclusion via open source work for the poor. In that time, I've
also
>>>>> had
>>>>> > the privilege of consulting on mobile money businesses, shared
>>>>> microfinance
>>>>> > platforms, and financial inclusion strategies in dozens of countries
>>>>> around
>>>>> > the world. For the past three and a half years I've worked as a
>>>>> (contract)
>>>>> > member of the LevelOneProject.org team at the Bill & Melinda
Gates
>>>>> > Foundation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I had an early role in articulating the case for what released this
>>>>> week
>>>>> as
>>>>> > open source code.  http://mojaloop.io/   I'd like to do a little
>>>>> context
>>>>> > setting here - all of this is on the leveloneproject.org or on
>>>>> mojaloop.io
>>>>> ,
>>>>> > but perhaps I am in a good position to explain how the Fineract
code
>>>>> base
>>>>> > could relate to the Mojaloop code. I suspect Markus is already
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> > about this... as are others. ;)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Mojaloop has as its main domain the transfer of value.
>>>>> Fundamentally, a
>>>>> way
>>>>> > to include people in the formal financial world is to create a more
>>>>> vibrant
>>>>> > ecosystem of operators providing different services to customers
>>>>> where the
>>>>> > friction in payments is removed. e.g. Rather than having to walk
or
>>>>> a take
>>>>> > a bus hours to make a payment for the kids school - you use the
>>>>> mobile
>>>>> > device to move funds. In the Mojaloop world, the DFSPs (Digital
>>>>> Financial
>>>>> > Service Providers) running a current version of Fineract could be
the
>>>>> > source and the destination for funds.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > While the world of payments can be arcane, one needs the ability
to
>>>>> route
>>>>> > the payment to a specific account address and the ability to ensure
>>>>> that
>>>>> > the payment settles at end of day or sooner (as soon as real time).
>>>>> > Mojaloop has a novel approach for both of these.  In the first,
>>>>> mojaloop
>>>>> > leverages Pathfinder (
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/tree/master/CentralDirectory
>>>>> ).
>>>>> > Pathfinder is a service of GSMA
>>>>> > https://www.gsma.com/managedservices/number-portability-
>>>>> services/about-pathfinder/
>>>>> > .
>>>>> > This innovation is important because it brings a different approach
>>>>> to
>>>>> > routing that is compatible with mobile telephony identity.  This
>>>>> code (
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/pathfinder-provisioning-client.)
>>>>> seems
>>>>> > like a good way to understand how this works.  In the second,
>>>>> Mojaloop
>>>>> uses
>>>>> > work by Ripple Labs on the Interledger Protocol (ILP) (
>>>>> > https://interledger.org/) to settle across different payment
>>>>> schemes or
>>>>> > within a network of ledgers and for the mojaloop that is
>>>>> quintessially the
>>>>> > Central Hub.
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/blob/
>>>>> master/ILP/block-diagram.png
>>>>> .
>>>>> > This explanation is better than what I could write:
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/tree/master/ILP
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, those two novel things are interesting and could be leveraged
by
>>>>> the
>>>>> > Fineract project today I would hazard.  I would suggest that one
>>>>> proof
>>>>> > point for compatibility would be to attempt to set up two instances
>>>>> of
>>>>> > Fineract (running with a mifos front end) and one instance of the
>>>>> mojaloop
>>>>> > Central Hub that allows for transfers to occur.
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/blob/master/L1P%
>>>>> 20Architecture%20and%20Payment%20Flow.pdf
>>>>> > It would likely require some additional work to make the APIs
>>>>> compatible.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Also, the centralized fraud service and scheme rules setting are
also
>>>>> > useful and not likely to be an overlap with the existing Fineract
>>>>> > direction, although do set me straight if I am wrong.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > In the Fineract-CN proposed code evolution (see other threads on
>>>>> this), we
>>>>> > have a need to understand how the Mojaloop intersects with the new
>>>>> > microservices architecture.  I would suggest however that since
>>>>> mojaloop
>>>>> is
>>>>> > primarily about the transfer of value and Fineract-CN is primarily
>>>>> about
>>>>> > the management of accounts and clients and access points, that the
>>>>> overlap
>>>>> > is minimal.  Dare I compare this to chocolate and peanut butter
and
>>>>> the
>>>>> > wonderful collision which is the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup?  We'll
>>>>> see.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As an idea, when building the microservices, it may be possible
to
>>>>> wrap
>>>>> > some of the libraries or services that were released under mojaloop
>>>>> - if
>>>>> > licenses are compatible of course.  On that the mojaloop team choose
>>>>> > Creative Commons Share Alike 4.0.  If there is a mentor who can
>>>>> answer
>>>>> that
>>>>> > - it would be good to know.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There is also a need to understand the flows that are - in my view
-
>>>>> > payments done right.  That is, payments or transfer of value, occur
>>>>> outside
>>>>> > of the signaling for those payments and are push and process
>>>>> immediately.
>>>>> > I've addressed this in another post recently but basically the flows
>>>>> are
>>>>> > well documented and the APIs are using the latest and greatest -
>>>>> Fineract
>>>>> > could benefit from simply reviewing that documentation.
>>>>> > https://leveloneproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/The-
>>>>> Level-One-Project-Guide-Designing-a-New-System-for-
>>>>> Financial-Inclusion1.pdf
>>>>> >
>>>>> >   https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/tree/master/CentralLedger
>>>>> ;
>>>>> >   https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/tree/master/LevelOneClient
>>>>> ;
>>>>> > https://github.com/LevelOneProject/Docs/blob/master/Interop%
>>>>> 20Services%20and%20Mule/PaymentFlow.png
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i'm trying to find the API documentation -- it's a big project,
>>>>> maybe the
>>>>> > subject of another email.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Finally, there are a lot of highly qualified people on this listserv
>>>>> who
>>>>> > could help identify some of the paths that would lead to some
>>>>> win-wins on
>>>>> > this front.  I look forward to the conversation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > - James Dailey
>>>>> > Seattle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Ed Cable*
>>>>> President/CEO, Mifos Initiative
>>>>> edcable@mifos.org | Skype: edcable | Mobile: +1.484.477.8649
>>>>> <(484)%20477-8649>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Collectively Creating a World of 3 Billion Maries | *http://mifos.org
>>>>> <http://facebook.com/mifos>  <http://www.twitter.com/mifos>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Ed Cable*
>>> President/CEO, Mifos Initiative
>>> edcable@mifos.org | Skype: edcable | Mobile: +1.484.477.8649
>>> <(484)%20477-8649>
>>>
>>> *Collectively Creating a World of 3 Billion Maries | *http://mifos.org
>>> <http://facebook.com/mifos>  <http://www.twitter.com/mifos>
>>>
>>>
>>

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