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From Ed Cable <>
Subject Re: Next Steps for Bringing Generation 3 Architecture into Apache Fineract
Date Mon, 31 Jul 2017 04:53:48 GMT
Thank you for your thorough email Myrle. This is exactly the conversation I
wanted to have start.

Please see some replies inline.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Myrle Krantz <> wrote:

> Hello Ed,
> It's exciting to see some interest in the work that Markus, Mark, and
> I have been doing on Gen 3.  It has always been, and still is the
> intention to bring this code into the Apache Fineract community.
> However doing so will require considerable effort, especially from me.
> Last November I did a presentation on Fineract at ApacheCon in
> Seville, Spain [1].  The positive resonance was tremendous.  Several
> people asked me in QA and again in the hall afterwards how they
> personally could contribute. Unfortunately because I am working on Gen
> 3, I could not answer that question.  Instead I sent them to the
> mailing list, where very sadly not one person found an answer which
> enabled them to contribute to Fineract.

I can only recall one individual who actually sent an email to the mailing
list and he was immediately engaged. Unfortunately at the time the project
wasn't yet ready for his contribution but I've continued to try and engage
with him to no success

> I want to be the kind of
> person who provides actionable information, and requests, so I made a
> decision based on that experience: I will not ask for help on a
> project again until I am ready to personally guide a new contributor
> through the process of contributing:
> * getting the new project building,
> * understanding the project structure,
> * finding appropriate tickets, and
> * getting their pull request merged.

That's a good checklist to have in place. With Apache Fineract Version 1,
we try our best to do that and I hope that others in the community can
hopefully start the doing the same for Gen 3/Apache Fineract Version 2
without you or anybody from Kuelap having to be a bottleneck.

> I believe you are asking for this and more Ed.  You probably want:
> * changes in features and additional features to support the community,
> * help in deploying microservices in a cloud architecture,
> * documentation assuring MFIs, and end users about our security
> architecture, plus
> * assistance in calls with potential customers of Gen 3.

Yes I think ultimately these are the resources the community needs to put
in place but really what i'm asking for now is the 3rd list that you've
made below.  Those resources ideally will come but for now I would like us
to simply try to achieve the prerequisites to getting Gen 3 officially into
Apache. Because right now everybody knows about it, is anticipating it, is
eager to use it, etc. but it's in state of limbo until we address your list

> Beyond both of these lists there is still more required to make this
> code into part of a successful Apache project:
> * addition of RAT to the build process,
> * adjustments to the project to remove non-Apache licensed code
> (potentially),
> * communications between Mifos and Apache to donate a tranche of code to a
> TLP,
> * communication with the Apache INFRA team to set up source
> repositories, and artifact repositories,
> * adjustments to JIRA to make it possible to mark tickets for which
> Gen, and which component,
> * release management for a new kind of release structure, and
> * collective decision-making about the future project direction.

This was the aim of the wiki page - can you please add those there? These
are exactly the kinds of items I wanted listed so we can discuss with other
Apache community and Mifos community members, how they could possibly
contribute in completing these prerequisites.

> There are probably a few tasks I haven't thought of that will have to
> be added to these lists.
> Unfortunately at this time, for various reasons, I'm not yet ready to
> do any of these three lists.  That is the reason I have not yet
> brought Gen 3 to the community.

I hope that by getting these lists out in the open, we can take some work
off your plate.

> Currently Kuelap is in startup mode, which I'm sure everyone here
> understands is a very intense mode of software development.  At the
> same time both of my daughters are at home for summer break, so I am
> caring for them during work hours.  Frankly I'm swamped.  I'm hoping
> that once I have both kids started into this school year, I'll have
> the time to take on responsibilities within the Apache Fineract
> community beyond those that I'm already fulfilling, such as those on
> some of the lists above. It may, however, be October before the dust
> on my end has settled enough to make time for extra responsibilities.

I understand the laser-focus that Kuelap is in but in my role as lead for
the Mifos Initiative and its community, we have a mandate to our donors and
a limited runway and time frame in which we are to catalyze a community on
Generation 3 and usher the community to this next generation. It's
difficult to do so until we achieve the prerequisites to make Gen 3 an
official part of Apache Fineract.

I don't envy your schedule (especially the child care part) as I'm now
watching over a 3 year old and know how exhausting and draining that can

Regarding the lists above, the second lists will have to come in due time
(and I'm trying to bring on volunteers to assist in the same) but I would
like to work you, Markus, and the rest of the team in coordination with the
community to achieve the 3rd list and and what's been on the wiki page.

> In the mean time however, I can give you the following assurance.
> While Mark and I were in Seville in November, I talked to Apache Infra
> about hosting multiple repositories for one project.  They are ready,
> willing, and waiting for our tickets to create new repositories.  I
> met with Roman in California while I was there on vacation August 2016
> and again in Seville in November.  Apache projects do occasionally
> perform re-architectings and release old and new in parallel for a
> while.  There is no technical or organisational Apache-level obstacle
> to our plan of releasing Gen 2, and Gen 3 side-by-side for a while. In
> fact we have a lot of good will from the ASF.  As you know I've also
> created a plan for how to assemble our releases out of multiple
> independent repositories and sent it to the Fineract community for
> feedback [2].  There is no currently identified obstacle to collecting
> our release out of multiple repositories.
Thank you for providing that assurance as well - I had only gotten some
feedback from Brian during OSCON this May and had not heard of your
conversations with Roman until now - from my conversations with Craig, that
was still an outstanding question.

Thank you again for investing all the effort up-front into ensuring a
release can be made out of multiple repositories.

Best Regards,
> Myrle Krantz
> 1.)
> seville-2016-introducing-apache-fineract-incubating-myrle-krantz/
> 2.)
> Composing+a+Release+out+of+Microservices
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:10 PM, Ed Cable <> wrote:
> > Hello Apache Fineract Community,
> >
> > As communicated throughout numerous webinars and white papers across the
> > Mifos and Apache Fineract communities, the future of our technology
> centers
> > around our Generation 3 architecture (Apache Fineract 2.0).
> >
> > I'm starting this thread to initiate the process of moving this new
> > codebase and next major version of Apache Fineract into the community so
> we
> > can at last mobilize the community around the new architecture.
> >
> > Right now the codebase is in a Github Repository at
> > but the community cannot fully participate
> until
> > it's part of Apache and there is little visibility or documentation for
> the
> > community to know of the status of Generation 3.
> >
> > Across the community there is a groundswell of interest from partners and
> > volunteers to contribute to, build on top of, and extend the new
> > architecture. I've informed these individuals that have expressed
> interest
> > in private to do so publicly and engage more actively on the lists.
> >
> > I have started a wiki page to list out the next steps/outstanding
> questions
> > we need to explore to proceed forward. I request that others, especially
> > those who have lead the design and development of Generation 3, please
> > expand this list and take responsibility and ownership for some of the
> > outstanding tasks so we can get Fineract 2.0 available to the community.
> >
> >
> > t+2.0+Introduction
> >
> > A prior concern that we've explored was the ability to maintain two major
> > versions of a software within one Apache project. Based on my
> conversations
> > with Apache leadership like Brian Behlendorf at the recent OSCON
> > conference, there is no issue with a project having two live major
> versions
> > at the same time.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > *Ed Cable*
> > President/CEO, Mifos Initiative

*Ed Cable*
President/CEO, Mifos Initiative | Skype: edcable | Mobile: +1.484.477.8649

*Collectively Creating a World of 3 Billion Maries | *
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