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Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 10:34:16 -0600
Message-ID: 
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Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
From: Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com>
To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
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What??

Your sentence is so meta, with shades of PC, that I don't even know what
you said.


On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Myrle Krantz <mkrantz@mifos.org> wrote:

> Just a little corrective to your perception of my intention:  I did not
> raise this concern as a defense to my voting suggestion.
>
> Greets,
> Myrle
>
>
> *Myrle Krantz*
> Solutions Architect
> R=C9=85=C4=90=C9=85=D0=AF, The Mifos Initiative
> mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype: mkrantz.mifos.org | http://mifos.org
> <http://facebook.com/mifos>  <http://www.twitter.com/mifos>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Your observations are good ones. Cultural awareness is very important.
> >
> > The "trick" that I've found to work is to speak and act in a way that
> > encourages participation. Take the time to send a few sentences
> indicating
> > that *EVERYONE* has a voice here and that their voice is of equal weigh=
t
> to
> > everyone elses.
> >
> > Voting is not a mechanism that brings consensus. As others have said it
> > creates divides. There are winners and losers. Furthermore, if the only
> > person who sees the inherent flaw in the proposal is someone without a
> > binding vote how can they make a difference in a vote in which their vo=
te
> > doesn't count and even if it did it would be one against many.
> >
> > Better is to make it clear that anyone with a concern should raise it.
> > Then ensure that concern is discussed and addressed to the satisfaction
> of
> > the whole community.
> >
> > The way to make this happen is not to create rules about how decisions
> are
> > made. It's to create a culture of sharing and respect. A culture in whi=
ch
> > listening and doing is more valuable than talking and defining. It's
> about
> > accepting "good enough" is an excellent contribution while incremental
> > improvements that take us from "good enough" to "even better" are equal=
ly
> > valuable.
> >
> > You are absolutely correct to worry that this is more difficult in some
> > cultures than in others. You should continue to do so. Call for specifi=
c
> > input from the community as a whole. Ensure you leave space for people =
to
> > contribute how *they* choose to do so. Basically actions within the
> > community speak much loader than words in a policy or process document.
> >
> > With that in mind, does anyone here have a feeling for what the right
> > balance is between process and policy for this community?
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Myrle Krantz [mailto:mkrantz@mifos.org]
> > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:48 PM
> > To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
> >
> > I'm actually most concerned about this aspect of making this an Apache
> > project.
> >
> > I can't find a fully politically correct way to say this, so to the
> extent
> > that I'm replacing individuals with stereotypes, I apologize.  I do kno=
w
> > that people vary from their cultural norms.  I don't know my fellow
> > contributors very well. I'm asking this in full recognition of my
> > ignorance, hoping that people who know more will correct me.
> >
> > Some of our contributors come from cultures with a low power distance a=
nd
> > some come from cultures with a high power distance (US: 40/100, Germany=
:
> > 35/100, Netherlands: 38/100, India 77/100)+.
> >
> > The Apache approach seems to assume that all participants view themselv=
es
> > as equal, or at least have a realistic view of how their personal merit
> > allows them to contribute to a discussion.  But it is possible that tho=
se
> > contributors who come from a high-power-distance culture, might allow
> > themselves to be cut out of a discussion by a gradient of power.
> Indeed, I
> > haven't seen many objections coming from our Indian colleagues to what
> > we've been suggesting. Even though they are more likely to have a
> > customer-contact informed opinion.
> >
> > From my American perspective, I believe we need to find a way to
> encourage
> > more active participation in these cases.  At the same time based on my
> > reading, I'm not sure that colleagues who come from a high-power-distan=
ce
> > culture even want a level playing field.  I'm pretty sure it is not
> > possible to impose a level-playing field if it's unwanted.
> >
> > So the questions are:
> >
> > * Is this even true? Are our Indian colleagues (or anyone else)
> > withholding important reservations? (My source could just be wrong.)
> >   * Is this really going to be a problem?
> >     * Is there a way to solve this? Or at least ameliorate it?
> >
> >
> > Happy New Year from Germany,
> > Myrle Krantz
> >
> >
> > + Source "Cultures and Organizations: Software of the Mind" Geert
> > + Hofstede
> > and Gert Jan Hofstede pages 43-44
> >
> >
> > *Myrle Krantz*
> > Solutions Architect
> > R=C9=85=C4=90=C9=85=D0=AF, The Mifos Initiative
> > mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype:
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dmkrantz.mifos.org&da=
ta=3D01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d312ba9=
3b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DBE%2fKBTIg2NNgLVwATGg5zM=
rFWB77RqCPpqX%2bGMU%2bK5c%3d
> > |
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2fmifos.o=
rg&data=3D01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d3=
12ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DH8V6JqQ3H3zB9F73A87=
26jutKqQVHDvI3IUnW195s2s%3d
> > <
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2ffaceboo=
k.com%2fmifos&data=3D01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f4=
3c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D9dvCR8tK=
j53N0m8q7b13A8yA3l0z8V6M59jLkZH0Wy4%3d
> >
> > <
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.twi=
tter.com%2fmifos&data=3D01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed9606193=
4f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DOxxo2=
M8RnRRF4iuW66z0kui0GunjG3bzntXZ0KsCmOI%3d
> > >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.co=
m
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1 - no leaders around here, just people doing the work. An ASF
> > > +project is
> > > "led" by whoever is active, that means lots of leaders at any one tim=
e.
> > > Those "leaders" are always answerable to the community as a whole.
> > >
> > > This might often seem like it is "nit-picking", it's just a language
> > > thing in most cases, especially when those doing the work have the
> > > full (silent) support of the community as a whole. However, if there
> > > is ever a time that the people doing the work appear to be heading in
> > > the wrong direction the flat structure of an Apache project becomes
> > > extremely important. For this reason language is very important.
> > >
> > > Ross
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:45 AM
> > > To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Terence Monteiro <
> > > terence@sanjosesolutions.in> wrote:
> > > >...
> > >
> > > > the discretion of our
> > > > (El Capitan) Markus and the consent of our benevolent champion Ross
> > > > and fellow Mentors, start the year in earnest. What say?
> > > >
> > >
> > > We are all peers. No Capitan, no Champion, no Mentors.
> > >
> > > Speaking for myself, I won't be a *participant* in the community, but
> > > will pop in as a guide. Decisions are best made by all of you. I can
> > > help with describing mechanisms and process (or how to avoid that!).
> > >
> > > Happy New Years!
> > > -g
> > >
> >
>

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