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From Myrle Krantz <mkra...@mifos.org>
Subject Re: Jira Workflow
Date Fri, 01 Jan 2016 16:54:08 GMT
Ross responded to my concern as though it had something to do with voting. It doesn't.

Greets,
Myrle


> On 01.01.2016, at 17:34, Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What??
> 
> Your sentence is so meta, with shades of PC, that I don't even know what
> you said.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Myrle Krantz <mkrantz@mifos.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Just a little corrective to your perception of my intention:  I did not
>> raise this concern as a defense to my voting suggestion.
>> 
>> Greets,
>> Myrle
>> 
>> 
>> *Myrle Krantz*
>> Solutions Architect
>> RɅĐɅЯ, The Mifos Initiative
>> mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype: mkrantz.mifos.org | http://mifos.org
>> <http://facebook.com/mifos>  <http://www.twitter.com/mifos>
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Your observations are good ones. Cultural awareness is very important.
>>> 
>>> The "trick" that I've found to work is to speak and act in a way that
>>> encourages participation. Take the time to send a few sentences
>> indicating
>>> that *EVERYONE* has a voice here and that their voice is of equal weight
>> to
>>> everyone elses.
>>> 
>>> Voting is not a mechanism that brings consensus. As others have said it
>>> creates divides. There are winners and losers. Furthermore, if the only
>>> person who sees the inherent flaw in the proposal is someone without a
>>> binding vote how can they make a difference in a vote in which their vote
>>> doesn't count and even if it did it would be one against many.
>>> 
>>> Better is to make it clear that anyone with a concern should raise it.
>>> Then ensure that concern is discussed and addressed to the satisfaction
>> of
>>> the whole community.
>>> 
>>> The way to make this happen is not to create rules about how decisions
>> are
>>> made. It's to create a culture of sharing and respect. A culture in which
>>> listening and doing is more valuable than talking and defining. It's
>> about
>>> accepting "good enough" is an excellent contribution while incremental
>>> improvements that take us from "good enough" to "even better" are equally
>>> valuable.
>>> 
>>> You are absolutely correct to worry that this is more difficult in some
>>> cultures than in others. You should continue to do so. Call for specific
>>> input from the community as a whole. Ensure you leave space for people to
>>> contribute how *they* choose to do so. Basically actions within the
>>> community speak much loader than words in a policy or process document.
>>> 
>>> With that in mind, does anyone here have a feeling for what the right
>>> balance is between process and policy for this community?
>>> 
>>> Ross
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Myrle Krantz [mailto:mkrantz@mifos.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:48 PM
>>> To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
>>> 
>>> I'm actually most concerned about this aspect of making this an Apache
>>> project.
>>> 
>>> I can't find a fully politically correct way to say this, so to the
>> extent
>>> that I'm replacing individuals with stereotypes, I apologize.  I do know
>>> that people vary from their cultural norms.  I don't know my fellow
>>> contributors very well. I'm asking this in full recognition of my
>>> ignorance, hoping that people who know more will correct me.
>>> 
>>> Some of our contributors come from cultures with a low power distance and
>>> some come from cultures with a high power distance (US: 40/100, Germany:
>>> 35/100, Netherlands: 38/100, India 77/100)+.
>>> 
>>> The Apache approach seems to assume that all participants view themselves
>>> as equal, or at least have a realistic view of how their personal merit
>>> allows them to contribute to a discussion.  But it is possible that those
>>> contributors who come from a high-power-distance culture, might allow
>>> themselves to be cut out of a discussion by a gradient of power.
>> Indeed, I
>>> haven't seen many objections coming from our Indian colleagues to what
>>> we've been suggesting. Even though they are more likely to have a
>>> customer-contact informed opinion.
>>> 
>>> From my American perspective, I believe we need to find a way to
>> encourage
>>> more active participation in these cases.  At the same time based on my
>>> reading, I'm not sure that colleagues who come from a high-power-distance
>>> culture even want a level playing field.  I'm pretty sure it is not
>>> possible to impose a level-playing field if it's unwanted.
>>> 
>>> So the questions are:
>>> 
>>> * Is this even true? Are our Indian colleagues (or anyone else)
>>> withholding important reservations? (My source could just be wrong.)
>>>  * Is this really going to be a problem?
>>>    * Is there a way to solve this? Or at least ameliorate it?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Happy New Year from Germany,
>>> Myrle Krantz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> + Source "Cultures and Organizations: Software of the Mind" Geert
>>> + Hofstede
>>> and Gert Jan Hofstede pages 43-44
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Myrle Krantz*
>>> Solutions Architect
>>> RɅĐɅЯ, The Mifos Initiative
>>> mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=mkrantz.mifos.org&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BE%2fKBTIg2NNgLVwATGg5zMrFWB77RqCPpqX%2bGMU%2bK5c%3d
>>> |
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmifos.org&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=H8V6JqQ3H3zB9F73A8726jutKqQVHDvI3IUnW195s2s%3d
>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2ffacebook.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=9dvCR8tKj53N0m8q7b13A8yA3l0z8V6M59jLkZH0Wy4%3d
>>> 
>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.twitter.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=Oxxo2M8RnRRF4iuW66z0kui0GunjG3bzntXZ0KsCmOI%3d
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> +1 - no leaders around here, just people doing the work. An ASF
>>>> +project is
>>>> "led" by whoever is active, that means lots of leaders at any one time.
>>>> Those "leaders" are always answerable to the community as a whole.
>>>> 
>>>> This might often seem like it is "nit-picking", it's just a language
>>>> thing in most cases, especially when those doing the work have the
>>>> full (silent) support of the community as a whole. However, if there
>>>> is ever a time that the people doing the work appear to be heading in
>>>> the wrong direction the flat structure of an Apache project becomes
>>>> extremely important. For this reason language is very important.
>>>> 
>>>> Ross
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:45 AM
>>>> To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Terence Monteiro <
>>>> terence@sanjosesolutions.in> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>> 
>>>>> the discretion of our
>>>>> (El Capitan) Markus and the consent of our benevolent champion Ross
>>>>> and fellow Mentors, start the year in earnest. What say?
>>>> 
>>>> We are all peers. No Capitan, no Champion, no Mentors.
>>>> 
>>>> Speaking for myself, I won't be a *participant* in the community, but
>>>> will pop in as a guide. Decisions are best made by all of you. I can
>>>> help with describing mechanisms and process (or how to avoid that!).
>>>> 
>>>> Happy New Years!
>>>> -g
>> 

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