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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: How to get our processes bootstrapped
Date Fri, 01 Jan 2016 03:25:42 GMT
On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <>

> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Myrle Krantz <> wrote:
> > Hi Fins,
> >
> > We've been having discussions about what processes we want, but we
> haven't
> > agreed yet on how to institute processes or how to change them once we've
> > instituted them.  I've put my thoughts on the matter into a short
> document
> > here:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd love to read your opinions on the matter too.
> In general, my strong advise to any young community is to avoid formal
> votes
> as a plague. At its core ASF runs on natural, not forced consensus. Any
> time
> there's a natural consensus -- you really don't need a vote. Any time
> there's a formal vote as a forcing function to a consensus -- you
> inevitably end up
> creating winners and losers. You really don't need that. At least not
> while the
> community is still young (and even when it grows up -- you don't
> *really* need it).

I absolutely concur with the above. VERY MUCH.

Roman is right: there is no need to define winners/losers. Consensus means
"those who agree" and "those who disagree, but will abide with the will of
the community." Don't separate the groups. Just understand they will exist,
and move onwards. A simple discussion is enough, and any real disagreement
will surface at that time.

In the 15 years that Apache Subversion has existed, the community has taken
a formal vote only TWICE. One was for a code formatting choice where clear
consensus wasn't present, and the other... I don't even know. We've gone a
DECADE without a vote. ... yet Apache Subversion is one of the most popular
pieces of software on the planet and has had over a hundred releases.
Clearly, a community doesn't require voting to be successful.


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