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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject RE: How to get our processes bootstrapped
Date Fri, 01 Jan 2016 13:14:52 GMT
+1 - some things are so important it is worth piling on when there is nothing to add...

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Stein [] 
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: How to get our processes bootstrapped

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <>

> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Myrle Krantz <> wrote:
> > Hi Fins,
> >
> > We've been having discussions about what processes we want, but we
> haven't
> > agreed yet on how to institute processes or how to change them once 
> > we've instituted them.  I've put my thoughts on the matter into a 
> > short
> document
> > here:
> >
> >
> >
> > es&
> > 008d3125b4258%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ooVkiIT0u
> > vdM81Gk6y%2bHPVruQhP3qiRjQEz4U0DmATA%3d
> >
> > I'd love to read your opinions on the matter too.
> In general, my strong advise to any young community is to avoid formal 
> votes as a plague. At its core ASF runs on natural, not forced 
> consensus. Any time there's a natural consensus -- you really don't 
> need a vote. Any time there's a formal vote as a forcing function to a 
> consensus -- you inevitably end up creating winners and losers. You 
> really don't need that. At least not while the community is still 
> young (and even when it grows up -- you don't
> *really* need it).

I absolutely concur with the above. VERY MUCH.

Roman is right: there is no need to define winners/losers. Consensus means "those who agree"
and "those who disagree, but will abide with the will of the community." Don't separate the
groups. Just understand they will exist, and move onwards. A simple discussion is enough,
and any real disagreement will surface at that time.

In the 15 years that Apache Subversion has existed, the community has taken a formal vote
only TWICE. One was for a code formatting choice where clear consensus wasn't present, and
the other... I don't even know. We've gone a DECADE without a vote. ... yet Apache Subversion
is one of the most popular pieces of software on the planet and has had over a hundred releases.
Clearly, a community doesn't require voting to be successful.

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