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From Markus Geiss <markus.ge...@live.de>
Subject Re: Jira Workflow
Date Fri, 01 Jan 2016 17:38:42 GMT
I feel it is time to come back to the original intent of this
thread.

Terence is making a few assumptions I like:

   1. We use an agile process, e.g. Sprints
   2. We want everybody to participate in the evolution of our
      software

For me the second point was implicit, given that the community is
the driving factor behind any OS project.

Once we brought over the initial source, we need to provide a first
starting point for our community to proceed with Fineract. For this
I'd agree that we take a look at the current road map and create new
tickets based on their current priority. I don't like the idea to
simply copy over everything b/c we should leave room for new ideas
and paths that Fineract could take on.

Best,

Markus

.::YAGNI likes a DRY KISS::.

On 01/01/2016 06:27 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> :-) email is a really bad communication medium sometimes. In this case my mentioning
of voting drew attention away from the important point of your concern - cultural awareness.
Had I inserted the words "for example" when mentioning voting perhaps this would not have
been the case.
>
> Anyway, no harm done, I hope.
>
> Ross
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Myrle Krantz [mailto:mkrantz@mifos.org]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 4:54 PM
> To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
>
> Ross responded to my concern as though it had something to do with voting. It doesn't.
>
> Greets,
> Myrle
>
>
>> On 01.01.2016, at 17:34, Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What??
>>
>> Your sentence is so meta, with shades of PC, that I don't even know
>> what you said.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Myrle Krantz <mkrantz@mifos.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just a little corrective to your perception of my intention:  I did
>>> not raise this concern as a defense to my voting suggestion.
>>>
>>> Greets,
>>> Myrle
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myrle Krantz*
>>> Solutions Architect
>>> RɅĐɅЯ, The Mifos Initiative
>>> mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype:
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=mkrantz.mifos.org&
>>> data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c57901e6a358a4b91b31608d
>>> 312cc3457%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=49ufQ9DXdOgceJ
>>> rN0fvwNQoqn0YjoMLVjLPic97cjMA%3d |
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmifos
>>> .org&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c57901e6a358a4b91b3
>>> 1608d312cc3457%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ckff7%2bb
>>> uzpCQ1%2bXtFLGtAvuB3d7P8o8otFssGpcOALM%3d
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fface
>>> book.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c57901e
>>> 6a358a4b91b31608d312cc3457%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sda
>>> ta=JSor5aMFYArSti7hCKGoAv003OAUOc1gsqYwK%2bWMCoU%3d>
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
>>> twitter.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c579
>>> 01e6a358a4b91b31608d312cc3457%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
>>> sdata=rrjr6WTOjToTQCa9TN66MlUh3qiaervPZ2TTPs4t1%2bg%3d>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Ross Gardler
>>> <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your observations are good ones. Cultural awareness is very important.
>>>>
>>>> The "trick" that I've found to work is to speak and act in a way
>>>> that encourages participation. Take the time to send a few sentences
>>> indicating
>>>> that *EVERYONE* has a voice here and that their voice is of equal
>>>> weight
>>> to
>>>> everyone elses.
>>>>
>>>> Voting is not a mechanism that brings consensus. As others have said
>>>> it creates divides. There are winners and losers. Furthermore, if
>>>> the only person who sees the inherent flaw in the proposal is
>>>> someone without a binding vote how can they make a difference in a
>>>> vote in which their vote doesn't count and even if it did it would be one
against many.
>>>>
>>>> Better is to make it clear that anyone with a concern should raise it.
>>>> Then ensure that concern is discussed and addressed to the
>>>> satisfaction
>>> of
>>>> the whole community.
>>>>
>>>> The way to make this happen is not to create rules about how
>>>> decisions
>>> are
>>>> made. It's to create a culture of sharing and respect. A culture in
>>>> which listening and doing is more valuable than talking and
>>>> defining. It's
>>> about
>>>> accepting "good enough" is an excellent contribution while
>>>> incremental improvements that take us from "good enough" to "even
>>>> better" are equally valuable.
>>>>
>>>> You are absolutely correct to worry that this is more difficult in
>>>> some cultures than in others. You should continue to do so. Call for
>>>> specific input from the community as a whole. Ensure you leave space
>>>> for people to contribute how *they* choose to do so. Basically
>>>> actions within the community speak much loader than words in a policy or
process document.
>>>>
>>>> With that in mind, does anyone here have a feeling for what the
>>>> right balance is between process and policy for this community?
>>>>
>>>> Ross
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Myrle Krantz [mailto:mkrantz@mifos.org]
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:48 PM
>>>> To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually most concerned about this aspect of making this an
>>>> Apache project.
>>>>
>>>> I can't find a fully politically correct way to say this, so to the
>>> extent
>>>> that I'm replacing individuals with stereotypes, I apologize.  I do
>>>> know that people vary from their cultural norms.  I don't know my
>>>> fellow contributors very well. I'm asking this in full recognition
>>>> of my ignorance, hoping that people who know more will correct me.
>>>>
>>>> Some of our contributors come from cultures with a low power
>>>> distance and some come from cultures with a high power distance (US: 40/100,
Germany:
>>>> 35/100, Netherlands: 38/100, India 77/100)+.
>>>>
>>>> The Apache approach seems to assume that all participants view
>>>> themselves as equal, or at least have a realistic view of how their
>>>> personal merit allows them to contribute to a discussion.  But it is
>>>> possible that those contributors who come from a high-power-distance
>>>> culture, might allow themselves to be cut out of a discussion by a gradient
of power.
>>> Indeed, I
>>>> haven't seen many objections coming from our Indian colleagues to
>>>> what we've been suggesting. Even though they are more likely to have
>>>> a customer-contact informed opinion.
>>>>
>>>>  From my American perspective, I believe we need to find a way to
>>> encourage
>>>> more active participation in these cases.  At the same time based on
>>>> my reading, I'm not sure that colleagues who come from a
>>>> high-power-distance culture even want a level playing field.  I'm
>>>> pretty sure it is not possible to impose a level-playing field if it's unwanted.
>>>>
>>>> So the questions are:
>>>>
>>>> * Is this even true? Are our Indian colleagues (or anyone else)
>>>> withholding important reservations? (My source could just be wrong.)
>>>>   * Is this really going to be a problem?
>>>>     * Is there a way to solve this? Or at least ameliorate it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Happy New Year from Germany,
>>>> Myrle Krantz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> + Source "Cultures and Organizations: Software of the Mind" Geert
>>>> + Hofstede
>>>> and Gert Jan Hofstede pages 43-44
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Myrle Krantz*
>>>> Solutions Architect
>>>> RɅĐɅЯ, The Mifos Initiative
>>>> mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype:
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=mkrantz.mifos.org&
>>> data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c4108d
>>> 312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BE%2fKBTIg2NNg
>>> LVwATGg5zMrFWB77RqCPpqX%2bGMU%2bK5c%3d
>>>> |
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmifos
>>> .org&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed96061934f43c39c
>>> 4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=H8V6JqQ3H
>>> 3zB9F73A8726jutKqQVHDvI3IUnW195s2s%3d
>>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2ffaceb
>>> ook.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed9606
>>> 1934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
>>> a=9dvCR8tKj53N0m8q7b13A8yA3l0z8V6M59jLkZH0Wy4%3d
>>>>
>>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.t
>>> witter.com%2fmifos&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c9ed9
>>> 6061934f43c39c4108d312ba93b5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
>>> data=Oxxo2M8RnRRF4iuW66z0kui0GunjG3bzntXZ0KsCmOI%3d
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardler
>>>> <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1 - no leaders around here, just people doing the work. An ASF
>>>>> +project is
>>>>> "led" by whoever is active, that means lots of leaders at any one time.
>>>>> Those "leaders" are always answerable to the community as a whole.
>>>>>
>>>>> This might often seem like it is "nit-picking", it's just a
>>>>> language thing in most cases, especially when those doing the work
>>>>> have the full (silent) support of the community as a whole.
>>>>> However, if there is ever a time that the people doing the work
>>>>> appear to be heading in the wrong direction the flat structure of
>>>>> an Apache project becomes extremely important. For this reason language
is very important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:45 AM
>>>>> To: dev@fineract.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: Jira Workflow
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Terence Monteiro <
>>>>> terence@sanjosesolutions.in> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> the discretion of our
>>>>>> (El Capitan) Markus and the consent of our benevolent champion
>>>>>> Ross and fellow Mentors, start the year in earnest. What say?
>>>>>
>>>>> We are all peers. No Capitan, no Champion, no Mentors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking for myself, I won't be a *participant* in the community,
>>>>> but will pop in as a guide. Decisions are best made by all of you.
>>>>> I can help with describing mechanisms and process (or how to avoid that!).
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy New Years!
>>>>> -g
>>>

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