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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 08:25:45 +0200
Message-ID: <AANLkTik-xgIb4wHxO2qpa9grF0qX-oKBbVfvNv84M3cm@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Proposed Resolution: Establish Apache Karaf as a TLP
From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com>
To: dev <dev@felix.apache.org>
Cc: "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 00:30, Roy T. Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com> wrote:

> On Jun 7, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Richard S. Hall wrote:
>
> > On 6/7/10 15:52, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> >> Hi Richard,
> >>
> >> This isn't too important, but I have to admit that
> >>
> >>
> >>> charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>> open-source software related to an OSGI based runtime for
> >>> creating enterprise servers
> >>>
> >> doesn't actually say anything meaningful to me because
> >> it has too many happy market terms.
> >>
> >> Would it be fair to summarize Karaf as
> >>
> >> "an OSGI-based runtime container that allows various components
> >> and applications to be dynamically deployed within a Java servlet
> >> environment"
> >>
> >
> > I don't think there was an attempt to use "happy market terms", but we
> can certainly try to improve the description.
> >
> > Your characterization seems somewhat narrowly focused on servlets, but
> Karaf really is a generic, OSGi-based runtime for creating enterprise
> servers, which may or may not use servlets. It simply tries to provide a
> common set of generic features needed by enterprise services, such as hot
> deployment, configuration management, logging, extensible and remotely
> accessible shell, etc. You could build any sort of server out of these
> features.
>
> Just to be clear, I don't know if Karaf has any association with
> servlets -- it was just a suggestion based on the website content
> and the fact that it seems to be Java only.
>

Out of curiosity, what made you think about servlets?
The main page: http://felix.apache.org/site/apache-felix-karaf.html does not
talk about servlets at all.


>
> Enterprise (at least the way you are using it) is a happy market term.
> What it would normally mean in a software context is a software system
> that spanned multiple organizations within a larger federation (such
> as many departments within a large company).  Unless Karaf is actually
> doing something as an application, like a CMS or Peopleware or SAP or
> Subversion, then it doesn't make sense to say that it is creating
> enterprise servers (if there is ever any sense in that phrase).
> Saying that it provides OSGI services that are commonly used by
> enterprise servers is fine.
>

Karaf is currently used as the basis for ServiceMix (an Enterprise Service
Bus) and Geronimo (implementation of Java Enterprise Edition).
I think ActiveMQ (JMS broker) will use it too for the next major version.
Other typical enterprise servers that could use Karaf are James (mail
server) or DS (ldap).
So I think it's a fair description or Karaf's main purpose, and the intent
was really not to use buzzwords as you seem to imply.


> > I understand your main concern to be that the description is too broad,
> is that correct? Given that the applicability of Karaf is broad and generic,
> do you have any further suggestions on how better to describe it to make it
> sound more focused? Thanks.
>
> Yes, but my suggestion was inaccurate because I don't know enough
> about Karaf.  I just need it to be specific enough to exclude what
> Felix and Sling are already doing, at least, and preferably exclude
> other applications of OSGI as well.  And you can be specific to Java,
> unless you actually intend not to be.
>

FWIW, Karaf reuses Felix components a lot and Sling could use Karaf as it
base runtime (though it doesn't).
OSGi is already a java specific technology, so I don't think we need to be
redundant either.


> ....Roy
>
> p.s.  and PLEASE don't CC private lists on public email
>
>


-- 
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

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