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From James Strachan <james.strac...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Move ServiceMix Kernel into Felix as a subproject
Date Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:28:08 GMT
I hear you Toni. I think part of the problem is one of visibility;
many folks don't know what SeviceMix Kernel is (and probably wouldn't
even think of looking at it for OSGi stuff if they were not doing ESB
stuff) plus am not sure folks realise what is in the sub projects of
Felix despite the OSGi runtime.

I think the reason for moving Karaf first to Felix was to unify all
the OSGi stuff in one place; then try build a more consolidated
community & share experience, knowledge and hopefully some code. e.g.
there's already some places of overlap between ServiceMix Kernel and
Felix and its sub projects that it'd be good to try figure out when we
can consolidate and when it makes sense to have multiple
implementations (e.g. shells, configuration etc).

What happens next is anyone's guess really - it could go into a few
directions; it could be Karaf becomes a TLP in its own right with some
stuff merging into Felix and other stuff moving from Felix into Karaf.
Who knows - maybe one day there could be Felix the runtime project,
XXX the OSGI tools project and Karaf the OSGi server/platform (which
works with Felix or Equinox). Maybe Karaf just stays as a sub project
of Felix?

I'd rather not second guess what might happen when hopefully more
folks from Felix, ServiceMix, James, Directory, Geronimo and others
all start working in the same place - but just being in the same place
for a while will help all projects involved IMHO if for no other
reason than visibility and getting to know each other. Then we can see
where the differences of function & focus really lie and we can figure
out a better way to split things up further down the line?

2009/4/3 Toni Menzel <toni@okidokiteam.com>:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:40 PM, James Strachan <james.strachan@gmail.com>wrote:
>> 2009/4/3 Toni Menzel <toni@okidokiteam.com>:
>> > I am also torn into the possibilities.Putting Karaf under felix will keep
>> > e.g. equinox advocates away (thats why Alex refer's to the devil :) ?)
>> > Also, any possible shortcoming (technical or political) of felix will
>> > directly affect Karaf as a higher level "enterprisy" solution.
>> Not really - already Felix hosts lots of code which is independent of
>> the actual OSGi runtime code - including a runtime adapter code so
>> most of the Felix project itself can be used on equinox.
> Yeah, but then its because felix contains just too much ?
> You could also ask from felix perspective:
> Does felix describes itself as a osgi r4 framework + (default) compendium
> implementations
> OR
> an osgi ecosystem providing it all?
> Its basically all about measuring the Apache Felix brand (=put karaf into
> felix tpl project)
> against the chance to start rising an independent osgi enterprise eco system
> (where smx4knl already started at)
>> > On the other hand, the one-shop stop for osgi sounds nice and convinient.
>> > But then you never stop and at best eat up ops4j pax tools as well next
>> > time.
>> >
>> > But to be honest, i never looked at smx4 before it was brought to the
>> felix
>> > list. And Karaf has to "earn" the brand that felix already has.
>> > No real "best" solution at this point i guess.
>> > Maybe someone should (from smx4) should try to formulate a positioning
>> > statement.
>> > Then things may become more clear probably.
>> I wonder if this helps...
>> http://servicemix.apache.org/SMX4KNL/index.html
> how did i miss that?
> But i would suggest to add the fact that is a kind of "batteries included"
> solution because all those features are promises felix itself could make
> when giving it a the right provisioning setup (fileinstall,url
> handlers,configadmin ..)
> The main benefit of caraf to me is
> - that everything is at its place by default ("batteries included")
> - higher level provisioning: feature concept (not really highlighted on the
> page currently)
> - one shop stop for the features and their documentation (no true currently,
> a real must TODO when opening karaf)
> Don't get me wrong, as an osgi maniac its all fine & great but putting on
> the standard J2EE-Hat we heard those days complaining about osgi ("not ready
> for enterprise") it is not clear immediately that smx4knl is a good
> start  for starting with osgi.
> Caraf really could start changing their minds when presented properly.
>> <http://servicemix.apache.org/SMX4KNL/index.html>
>> --
>> James
>> -------
>> http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>> Open Source Integration
>> http://fusesource.com/
> --
> Toni Menzel
> Software Developer
> Professional Profile: http://www.osgify.com
> toni@okidokiteam.com
> http://www.ops4j.org     - New Energy for OSS Communities - Open
> Participation Software.


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