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From "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>
Subject Re: [Karaf] Moving Karaf svn into Felix
Date Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:45:21 GMT
Well, I certainly don't know which approach is best. So far, I don't 
think we have run into too much difficulty with our all-in-one approach. 
At least it doesn't seem like there is an enormous amount of unrelated 
traffic. We shall see if this takes us to a new level.

-> richard

On 4/27/09 11:40 AM, Chris Custine wrote:
> I'm fine with the agreed upon approach, but I also wanted to clarify some of
> what Guillaume originally proposed because I never saw any of this mentioned
> in this thread.
>
> Within ServiceMix we had already split Kernel/Karaf and other larger parts
> of our project (components, NMR, etc.) into separate standalone SVN, Jira,
> and Wiki projects.  We mainly did this as a result of some painful growth
> experiences with maintainting documentation, multiple concurrent releases
> (bugfix branches vs major releases), increased user traffic, and various
> other issues that were encountered with having a large monolithic project
> structure with dozens of subprojects.
>
> I think ServiceMix and Felix are somewhat unique among Apache projects in
> that each has already fostered a rather large ecosystem of related
> sub-projects or components that have a lifecycle all their own.  I don't
> think anyone has found a perfect solution within our (Apache)
> infrastructure, but I wouldn't worry about fragmenting a community because
> on development infrastructure organization choices.  I think the essence of
> a well established community is largely unaffected by the organization and
> naming of code and artifacts
>
> Sorry for being late to the discussion, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.  I
> think the most important thing is to keep moving forward so +1 for the
> current plan, and we can always reevaluate down the road if this thing takes
> off like we think it will.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Custine
> FUSESource :: http://fusesource.com
> My Blog :: http://blog.organicelement.com
> Apache ServiceMix :: http://servicemix.apache.org
> Apache Directory Server :: http://directory.apache.org
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Richard S. Hall<heavy@ungoverned.org>wrote:
>
>    
>> On 4/27/09 7:36 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Ok, I'm not really convinced, but since it seems there is a lot of
>>> reluctance I think we should aim for:
>>>    * packages in org.apache.felix.karaf
>>>    * use existing FELIX infrastructure (mailing list, jira tracker,
>>> confluence space)
>>>
>>> I think we should start with the above and reconsider later if there is a
>>> need.
>>> Is everyone satisfied with the above ?
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> I think this sounds fine.
>>
>> My main concern was that the reason for moving to Felix was to focus the
>> community on it, thus it seemed strange to then try to make it completely
>> separate in approach, mailing lists, infrastructure, etc., since that
>> approach could have been done at ServiceMix and achieved the same result, I
>> would think.
>>
>> ->  richard
>>
>>   On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:17, Karl Pauls<karlpauls@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>      
>>>        
>>>> I think we should start with the FELIX infra and then see whether we
>>>> need to create a new one when the need is there.
>>>>
>>>> About the package renaming, I'm in favour of going with
>>>> org.apache.felix.karaf just because it emphasizes that felix is not
>>>> about the framework. If we make an exception then this sends a strange
>>>> message IMO.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Richard S. Hall<heavy@ungoverned.org>
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> On 4/27/09 6:07 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Yes, they do.  The definition of a subproject is imho just something
>>>>>> controlled by a given TLP.
>>>>>> The way its infrastructure is set up has nothing to do with that.
 A
>>>>>> lot of TLP uses multiple JIRA and confluence spaces for different
>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> My point was, this subproject is apparently not going to be treated like
>>>>> any
>>>>> other Felix subproject.
>>>>>
>>>>> ->   richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:03, Richard S. Hall<heavy@ungoverned.org>
>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> On 4/27/09 5:57 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> It seems the consensus for the code is to move it to
>>>>>>>>     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/felix/trunk/karaf
>>>>>>>> So i'll go ahead and move the servicemix kernel trunk there
asap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We still need to settle the problems of:
>>>>>>>>     * package name: org.apache.karaf vs org.apache.felix.karaf
>>>>>>>>     * jira issue tracker: use FELIX or create a new KARAF
one
>>>>>>>>     * web site: use FELIX or create a new KARAF one
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The package renaming to org.apache.karaf has raised a number
of
>>>>>>>> concerns, mostly (correct me if i'm wrong) about the fact
whether
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> would be frowned upong by the ASF or not.  Given the number
of
>>>>>>>> subprojects that do that since a long time, I think the answer
is no.
>>>>>>>>   Now we need to decide if we want to do this or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the issue tracker and web site, I think this is somewhat
related
>>>>>>>> to the package renaming issue above, though the problem is
a bit
>>>>>>>> different.  I'm really opened here, but if we choose to rename
the
>>>>>>>> packages to org.apache.karaf, it think it would make more
sense to
>>>>>>>> have dedicated JIRA and confluence spaces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>> And is this how other projects do it too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems this is a subproject in name only.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ->     richard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:26, Guillaume Nodet<gnodet@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to start moving the ServiceMix Kernel code into
Felix now.
>>>>>>>>> Given the size of the code base, I think it would be
better to just
>>>>>>>>> move the tree into its own top level svn structure.
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to run the following command:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     svn cphttps://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/servicemix/smx4/kernel
>>>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/felix/karaf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any objections in doing that ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Next steps will include creating a JIRA project and moving
all the
>>>>>>>>> issues into it (with a KARAF id), then the confluence
space.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Blog:http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>              
>>>>> --
>>>>>            
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>
>    

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