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From Haohui Mai <h...@hortonworks.com>
Subject Re: Admin Dashboard
Date Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:02:08 GMT
bq. Try implementing a
very basic requirement: user sessions( a logged in user doesn't need to
login again on every page) with existing stack and you will understand what
I am trying to say.

Note that even simple features like user sessions in Falcon will be coupled
with other components in the Hadoop ecosystems. In secure set ups, Falcon
will need to get delegation tokens from the HDFS NameNode and perform
UGI-related operations. I don't see how Django will help in this case.

bq. P.S. On a side note, you can use python to interact with Hadoop, Hive,
Pig,
Oozie. Again, I am not suggesting to use python instead of java in existing
components.

If this is the case, can you elaborate on how Python+Django can benefit
Falcon, and what exact requirements need to be solved?




On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 9:26 PM, Ajay Yadav <ajaynsit@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Haohui,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I am not suggesting to change existing java code to
> python or saying that we can live without javascript. All I am suggesting
> is that we do need to use a server side web framework. Try implementing a
> very basic requirement: user sessions( a logged in user doesn't need to
> login again on every page) with existing stack and you will understand what
> I am trying to say.
>
>
> P.S. On a side note, you can use python to interact with Hadoop, Hive, Pig,
> Oozie. Again, I am not suggesting to use python instead of java in existing
> components.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Haohui Mai <hmai@hortonworks.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your interests in contributing in Falcon. I am one of the
> > early contributors in Falcon UI, here are my two cents:
> >
> > Falcon has a browser-server architecture which needs to address two
> > requirements:
> >
> > 1. Provide a feature-rich UI (e.g. FALCON-290) to the browser.
> >
> > 2. The server-side logics have to integrate with existing Hadoop
> > ecosystems (e.g., MapReduce, Hive, Pig, and Oozie) which are heavily
> > based on Java.
> >
> > While personally I'm pretty open to any other technologies, but I am
> > yet to be convinced that how Python+Django will add any values to
> > address the above requirements. More concretely:
> >
> > i. JavaScript is (and will continue to be) an essential part of the UI
> > to meet requirement (1). The python stack cannot replace the
> > JavaScript part on the client side.
> >
> > ii. Falcon has to rely on Java to interact with other projects in the
> > Hadoop ecosystems, as there are few bindings in other languages for
> > these projects.
> >
> >
> > Using Python+Django might help attract attentions from the python
> > community, but I think that from the Falcon points of view, it is much
> > more important to keep align with the whole Hadoop ecosystems (which are
> > the main audiences of the Falcon project). Moreover, I don't think that
> the
> > merits that you mentioned for server-side technologies have to be coupled
> > with Python+Django -- in fact, there are many more implementation of
> > enterprise
> > features like exporting to Excel in Java.
> >
> > In short, I think that the current choice of Java+REST+JavaScript is
> quite
> > reasonable. Though I'm pretty open to any other technologies, I'm yet to
> be
> > convinced that Python+Django can be a superior choice.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Haohui
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Ajay Yadav <ajaynsit@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Any comments? I am awaiting your decision to start working on this.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Ajay Yadav <ajaynsit@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Venkatesh,
> > > >
> > > > Valid question and I am glad that you gave an opportunity to discuss
> > it.
> > > I
> > > > have no particular bias towards using django. I have worked with
> client
> > > > side templates(not dust.js but more popular alternatives like
> mustache,
> > > > handlebars etc.) and client side MV* frameworks like backbone.js,
> > > angularjs
> > > > etc. It is completely possible to use both together, most common
> case.
> > > >
> > > > *Note: *I looked at the existing code and saw that the current work
> in
> > > > dust.js is very less - around15-25 lines(only dust templates part not
> > > > html/css). So may I take the liberty of rephrasing your question
> > slightly
> > > > as below
> > > >
> > > > *Question*: Assuming we can choose only one to keep stack mix to
> > minimum
> > > > - shall we use pure client side framework(like dust.js) or  pure
> server
> > > > side framework(like django)?
> > > >
> > > > *Answer*:
> > > > *TLDR Version:*
> > > > Server side components offer more flexibility and extensibility than
>  a
> > > > pure client side framework. Using only client side stack will rule
> out
> > > use
> > > > of database for dashboards, talking to other services,plugins etc. by
> > > using
> > > > just dust.js. Things like hardcoding of rest server end points,
> > graceful
> > > > degradation, number of parallel connections available in browser will
> > > limit
> > > > pure client side stacks. In other cases it will put a stress on
> falcon
> > > REST
> > > > API to be modified just for the dashboard. Using python stack instead
> > of
> > > > javascript, will help in getting more support from community.
> > > >
> > > > *Long Version*
> > > >
> > > >    - *Convenience vs. Possibility* - Server side components give us
> > > >    flexibility and extensibility to build for any use case in future
> as
> > > well.
> > > >    Any future feature is possible to be built without dust.js and
> > > bootstrap
> > > >    but not other way around. Dust.js and bootstrap just make it
> easier
> > > to do
> > > >    lot of things to enhance user experience.
> > > >    - *Features* - Consider the login page of the dashboard. We will
> > need
> > > >    a database to store users/ integrate with ldap. We will need to
> > > generate
> > > >    new random passwords when users forget passwords. Same for
> features
> > > like
> > > >    bookmarks, custom dashboards etc. A lot of features like this
> can't
> > > be done
> > > >    if we are not using any server side component.
> > > >    - *Sanity of  REST API* - REST services of falcon are not only for
> > web
> > > >    browser consumption. They can be used by command line clients etc.
> > as
> > > well.
> > > >    As the use cases for dashboard will evolve, it will become more
> > > involved to
> > > >    do things using js alone on client side and it will put lot of
> > stress
> > > on
> > > >    modifying REST API to suit just the client. For example consider
> the
> > > use
> > > >    case of allowing an administrator to edit a process from an HTML
> > > form. REST
> > > >    API will return plain text/xml and it will be tedious and slow to
> > > parse
> > > >    everything in javascript side and then recreate it. Sending a json
> > and
> > > >    accepting json just to cater to web client will be problem for
> > > >    - Another use case can be to be able to export the reports like
> SLAs
> > > >    missed in last quarter, metrics in pdf/excel format and it will
> not
> > be
> > > >    possible to do it on client side and in lack of a server side
> > > component it
> > > >    will again put stress on REST API to be modified just for
> dashboard
> > > UI.
> > > >    - *Best Practices* - With just dust.js and simple htmls being
> served
> > > >    through a webserver, we will have to deal with naming urls with
> > .html
> > > >    extensions, hardcoding the REST end points in each HTML etc.
> > > >    - *Browser constraints* - We will have to deal with browser
> > > >    constraints like number of parallel connections, cross site
> > requests,
> > > >    javascript not being enabled etc. This will also restrict the
> > > development.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    - *Community Support* - This is purely my impression and I might
> be
> > > >    completely wrong here. I see that more python developers are
> > involved
> > > with
> > > >    big data/data science/machine learning eco system than more
> > javascript
> > > >    developers. Hence it will be easier to find more support for
> > > maintaining
> > > >    and extending these components in community if we develop them in
> > > django
> > > >    instead of dust.js.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 2:28 AM, Seetharam Venkatesh <
> > > > venkatesh@innerzeal.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I think we are using bootstrap and dust templates. I'd want to see
> if
> > we
> > > >> need to introduce more technologies into the mix. Do we need Python
> > and
> > > >> Django?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Ajay Yadav <ajaynsit@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Thanks Srikanth and Venkatesh.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I had looked at the UI and the graph database related code and
I
> > will
> > > >> reuse
> > > >> > existing code where ever available. I checked for compatibility
of
> > > each
> > > >> of
> > > >> > the software being used and they are all compatible with APL
2.0
> > > >> (Python,
> > > >> > Django & Bootstrap).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > If you can assign the task to me on JIRA also, it will be
> > > >> > great(user:ajayyadava) Also, I got the balsamiq account for
> > > >> falcon(thanks
> > > >> > Srikant) and I will be asking all my questions on mocks there.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Seetharam Venkatesh <
> > > >> > venkatesh@innerzeal.com> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Welcome aboard Ajay. Please let us know how we can help
you to
> get
> > > up
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > running on this. The REST APIs are documented at:
> > > >> > >
> http://falcon.incubator.apache.org/docs/restapi/ResourceList.html
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Thanks!
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Ajay Yadav <ajaynsit@gmail.com
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > Hi,
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I would like to volunteer for
> > > >> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FALCON-37
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I have more than 7 years of experience in building
websites. I
> > > have
> > > >> > > > experience in both client side
> > > >> technologies(javascript/HTML5/Bootstrap
> > > >> > > > etc.) and server side technologies(Python/Django).
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I will need some help with iterating on the mocks as
they
> don't
> > > >> seem to
> > > >> > > be
> > > >> > > > complete. I spent couple of hours on building a couple
of
> pages
> > > >> using
> > > >> > > > "dummy" data to get an idea of what all APIs are required.
> > Please
> > > >> find
> > > >> > > them
> > > >> > > > attached. They are just a quick and dirty prototype
and UI is
> > > pretty
> > > >> > raw
> > > >> > > as
> > > >> > > > of now, to get quick feedback. I used Django,HTML5
&
> Bootstrap.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Please let me know if I can own this task.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Regards,
> > > >> > > Venkatesh
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > “Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is
nothing
> more
> > > to
> > > >> > add,
> > > >> > > but rather when there is nothing more to take away.”
> > > >> > > - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Venkatesh
> > > >>
> > > >> “Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more
> to
> > > add,
> > > >> but rather when there is nothing more to take away.”
> > > >> - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > --
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-- 
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