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From "Eric Pugh" <ep...@opensourceconnections.com>
Subject RE: The YAAFI Manifesto - WAS Re: Plans for Fulcrum release ....
Date Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:30:08 GMT
Leandro's vision of the future for Turbine is very much in line with
what the committers would like to see happen to Turbine.  Turbine 2.3
was the beginning of cleaning up the massive mess of code by introducing
the first Avalon container based on ECM and moving Torque to it's own
project.  Turbine 2.4 (stil in development) has continued that process.
We continue to use ECM primarily in Turbine, have deprecated many of the
old Turbine services in favor of released components from the Fulcrum
project.  Turbine 2.5 (somewhere down the road) will have a very minimal
set of dependencies, and you add the ones you require.

Part of the interest in using Yaafi was that we needed an easy to setup
container for running unit tests.  And I liked the idea of having two
containers, Yaafi and ECM, to validate that the Fulcrum components are
really portable.


-----Original Message-----
From: Leandro Rodrigo Saad Cruz [mailto:leandro@ibnetwork.com.br] 
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:35 AM
To: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
Cc: Turbine Developers List; Excalibur Developers List
Subject: Re: The YAAFI Manifesto - WAS Re: Plans for Fulcrum release

On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 11:33 +0100, Siegfried Goeschl wrote:
> Hi Aaron,
> 1) Original Motivation for YAAFI
> 1.1) A few months ago I worked on a JSP/Struts web application for a
> customer and they needed to integrate a few external services over the

> time. I decided to go with Avalon components but I got frustrated with

> the various containers (Excalibur, Merlin), my inability to get them 
> running and the amount of additional dependencies. The problem was not

> my frustration as external consultant (I get paid for that) but my 
> customer would have plainly recjected the Avalon approach if adds too 
> much complexity (they devil you don't know). To cover my a**  I coded
> minimal Avalon container over night.

I agree. You should be able to setup a container in a matter of minutes.
It should be simple to make simple things.

> 1.2) In my own company we have a Turbine application and a few 
> services
> which could have been contributed years ago but the Turbine Service 
> Framework is convoluted due to the monolithic approach of Turbine. We 
> found out that the only stuff we used from Turbine were a few services

> and our own stuff. And we are sort of stuck to an old version of
> - well, not a big deal but we would have to migrate our own services.
> we take the Fulcrum approach which would fit nicely ....

Turbine evolved into a huge mass of code with no defined role or
objective. In my opinion Turbine should be a minimal framework with :
- A pipeline 
- Security an error handling

That's it. We use Turbine on my company too. but all services are
disable (except the core). What I really like about turbine is the way
you can organize your page with screens, layouts and navigations !

> And I would appreciate some sort of cross-project cooperation to 
> achieve
> the following long-term goals
> +) ensure that the available Avalon services (Excalibur, Fulcrum, 
> +Xingu)
> run with Fortress and YAAFI

I can setup Xingu to use YAAFI. right now we are using Fortress.

> Cheers,
> Siegfried Goeschl

Cheers !

Leandro Rodrigo Saad Cruz
CTO - InterBusiness Tecnologia e Servi├žos
SiteDaFesta : www.sitedafesta.com.br
OJB : db.apache.org/ojb
XINGU : xingu.sf.net

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