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From: Manoj Ganesan <manoj.ganesan@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:32:31 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTim_Vci83p0ykxLyUMSHUarPnx-UugBY80S5o4EV@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Future of Etch
To: etch-dev@incubator.apache.org
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Niclas,

Being the mentor, you would remember the professional transition all the
original Etch developers went through around a year back. That obviously
hits the brakes on how fast the technology is adopted, and some time is
warranted for the project to grow with the creators getting their
professional lives back on track.

The technology isn't something you can try out, and exclaim success in a few
days. To see if Etch is a custom-fit for users, it is only reasonable to
expect that it'll take some time and experimentation. Especially, with some
similar technologies in existence for longer.

It's not that the project is in oblivion. Holger and folks have been working
extensively on the C binding and have been reporting success with the
system. There are other questions/comments, albeit not too frequent,
including one informing us of their success with using Etch (first version
of NetKernel Protocol). The creators of the project use it at their
workplace. I have been investigating Etch being the possible IPC protocol
for our future architecture at my work.

So there are people who are obviously using it. Why 'retire' it then?
Doesn't the term itself discourage people from trying the technology out.
Wouldn't it be better to retire it when it's deemed of being obsolete, or
that it's giving Apache a bad name, or that no one is really using it?
Neither of these seem true today.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Manoj


On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Youngjin Park (youngjpa) <youngjpa@cisco.com
> wrote:

> I feel pain. I had full of interesting in Etch and I still have it. But, it
> was very difficult to allocate my extra time to do this in a new team where
> Apache Etch was not born and especially in a team having so many upcoming
> projects in front of me. It was obviously interesting project, but it was
> beyond my control in recent days in a new team and in a new place. Sorry
> about hearing this.
>
> Youngjin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Dixson [mailto:dixson3@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:31 PM
> To: etch-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Future of Etch
>
> If Apache does not like the rate of progress, then that is Apache's
> prerogative. I do not like it, I do not want it to happen,  but I
> personally have no energy or interest in jumping through any other hoops
> to try and prevent it.
>
> I find it unfortunate that if the project is forcibly retired that it
> will require any other contributions to the project to be made somewhere
> else.
>
> Looking back over the last 2yrs I have found this whole incubation
> experience to be a bit too *fussy*. Everything from the long drawn-out
> discomfort about the "Etch" name to the continual pressure to wrangle
> new committers, to this latest (and just a little bit patronizing) label
> of "retirement". It is disappointing because such a label *is*
> stigmatizing to the technology in a way that is completely not the
> technology's "fault".
>
> I do not blame any of the mentors, past or present. I blame ourselves
> for thinking that Apache adoption of Etch would be a good thing for both
> Etch and Apache. Instead the experience has been more like moving into a
> gated community with an over-aggressive home-owners association who
> wants us evicted because we are not mowing our grass twice a week.
>
> I am sure you have heard this kind of criticism before (I certainly have
> read things like this in the incubator forum). I feel I understand a lot
> better what Apache affiliation is and will certainly think twice before
> considering this again in the future. "Success" as Apache
> defines it just seems more correlated with the extroverted tendencies of
> the committers rather than the merits of technology.
>
> Finally, despite it all of my belly-aching I do appreciate all of the
> time and energy the mentors have provided. If I have offended, I do not
> intend to, I only intend to express my frustration and disappointment
> with the process.
>
> The situation is what it is.
>
> --
> james
>
> * Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> [2010-09-02 09:04:01 +0800]:
>
> > Guys,
> > we think that the non-activity of Etch is really "permanent" and will
> > propose to the Incubator to make the project "Retired".
> >
> > As it is Reporting Month for Etch in September, I am suggesting that
> > we send this message instead of fabricating a "weak" report.
> >
> > If you have any serious objections, now is the time to speak.
> >
> > As for the codebase; Anyone is free to take it and do what ever they
> > want, within the limits of the Apache license, the SVN history will
> > remain, but made read-only. If I new community is to emerge, they can
> > request Etch to come out of retirement (not common).
> >
> > This is in no way reflecting negative on the individuals involved in
> > Etch, as we are well aware of the challenges to bootstrap communities.
> >
> > Cheers
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
> >
> > I  live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> > I  work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> > I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>

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