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From Richard Hirsch <hirsch.d...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Turtles all the way down (or how I learned to love math in computing)
Date Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:31:32 GMT
OK. I like the idea of G2 and also the idea of re-using as much
existing code as possible.

Probably be easiest to just create a branch and go for it. That way
you don't have to wait for a vote on the list and can start coding
immediately.  Once the branch is stable, we can vote on moving it to
the trunk.

D.

BTW: I'm hoping that your imaginary message "done: #esme
authentication" is true :->

D.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:52 PM, David
Pollak<feeder.of.the.bears@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I like the idea of making ESME more available for other types of
>> applications. One application core with micro-blogging being one
>> example of an app that is based on the core.
>
>
> Actually, I think this is an extension to microblogging.
>
> If I microblog:
>
> tcw: dickh re: #ESME standup time: 30min
> todo: add different authentication to #ESME
> working on: #ESME authentication
> done: #esme authentication
>
> over the course of a day, those updates are meaningful to humans, but can
> also be parsed and used to update structured data.
>
> If you can reply to the todo: message with "watch: I care about this
> feature", that might trigger heightening the visibility of updates from this
> to-do item.
>
> So, I think that the "turtles" direction remains pure and true to
> microblogging, but allows people to build (and maybe share) applications
> built on the semi-structured data.
>
>
>>
>>
>> But (and there is always a "but") - don't you you think you are moving
>> more towards ESME being a message-broker / service bus. If this is
>> intended, what then are the distinguishing characteristics regarding
>> other existing message brokers.
>>
>> My other qustion would be: what remains of the existing application?
>> Could we save anything or must be start anew (groan) again.
>
>
> I personally think every line of code I've written should be burned down
> (but I always have a low opinion of the re-use of my code.)  I will make
> sure to use as much of Vassil and others' code as I can.  Also, I'm going to
> try to preserve the stuff that's UI related.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>>
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Anne Kathrine
>> Petterøe<yojibee@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > David,
>> >
>> > Sorry for the late and short reply. You have already said most of what I
>> > wanted to say by now :)
>> > I think we should definitely go for it.
>> >
>> > I am still wondering if we should still keep the "old" ESME too?
>> > Or will it be an either or situation?
>> >
>> > And regarding this:
>> > " I could conceivably refocus on G2 (but I do want to know more details)
>> and
>> > let the UI masters work their magic."
>> > -- at the moment we don't have any UI masters on the team, which is
>> turning
>> > into a *serious* problem.
>> > Anyone know a UI developer with free time on his hands?
>> >
>> > /Anne
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5. aug.. 2009, at 17.27, David Pollak wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>> Darren,
>> >>>> I fully agree with you.  I have no plans to make ESME harder to
use.
>>  At
>> >>>
>> >>> its
>> >>>>
>> >>>> core, it's a micro-messaging system.  On the other hand, I do want
to
>> >>>
>> >>> make
>> >>>>
>> >>>> it easier for people who are not Scala developers with access to
the
>> >>>> ESME
>> >>>> source code to build applications on top of ESME.  I view this
class
>> of
>> >>>
>> >>> user
>> >>>>
>> >>>> as similar to "Excel power users."  But Excel power users often
>> >>>
>> >>> distribute
>> >>>>
>> >>>> spreadsheets to their co-workers that allow the non-power-users
to get
>> >>>> something new done.
>> >>>
>> >>> If it's too complicated, there could be a plugin/version "extra
>> >>> actions" the way there are separate formula packages for Excel.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yeah... there has to be layered template libraries available to the
>> power
>> >> users.  This is part of the business model that I'm thinking about...
>> >> basically... an eco-system (marketplace, app store) for composable
>> >> elements.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> For complex tasks like this, tooling matters. It should be easy to
>> >>> compose/debug.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes.  I've been thinking about "play this range of updates" or
>> >> "single-step
>> >> this range of updates" so you can see what would happen if you applied
>> >> certain transformations/accumulations.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> ESME has some similarities to Yahoo!Pipes- both reroute
>> >>> and transform pieces of text, but in a different context. However,
>> >>> Yahoo!Pipes makes it easy to assemble components graphically like Lego
>> >>> pieces, thereby ensuring that inappropriate pieces don't fit together.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yep.  Yahoo! Pipes is a great visual builder... but it also feels very
>> >> "push" rather than "reach into the ether and find what I'm looking for."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Vassil
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> >> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>> >> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> >> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>

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