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From David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Turtles all the way down (or how I learned to love math in computing)
Date Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:52:53 GMT
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com>wrote:

> I like the idea of making ESME more available for other types of
> applications. One application core with micro-blogging being one
> example of an app that is based on the core.


Actually, I think this is an extension to microblogging.

If I microblog:

tcw: dickh re: #ESME standup time: 30min
todo: add different authentication to #ESME
working on: #ESME authentication
done: #esme authentication

over the course of a day, those updates are meaningful to humans, but can
also be parsed and used to update structured data.

If you can reply to the todo: message with "watch: I care about this
feature", that might trigger heightening the visibility of updates from this
to-do item.

So, I think that the "turtles" direction remains pure and true to
microblogging, but allows people to build (and maybe share) applications
built on the semi-structured data.


>
>
> But (and there is always a "but") - don't you you think you are moving
> more towards ESME being a message-broker / service bus. If this is
> intended, what then are the distinguishing characteristics regarding
> other existing message brokers.
>
> My other qustion would be: what remains of the existing application?
> Could we save anything or must be start anew (groan) again.


I personally think every line of code I've written should be burned down
(but I always have a low opinion of the re-use of my code.)  I will make
sure to use as much of Vassil and others' code as I can.  Also, I'm going to
try to preserve the stuff that's UI related.

Thanks,

David


>
>
> D.
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Anne Kathrine
> Petter√łe<yojibee@gmail.com> wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > Sorry for the late and short reply. You have already said most of what I
> > wanted to say by now :)
> > I think we should definitely go for it.
> >
> > I am still wondering if we should still keep the "old" ESME too?
> > Or will it be an either or situation?
> >
> > And regarding this:
> > " I could conceivably refocus on G2 (but I do want to know more details)
> and
> > let the UI masters work their magic."
> > -- at the moment we don't have any UI masters on the team, which is
> turning
> > into a *serious* problem.
> > Anyone know a UI developer with free time on his hands?
> >
> > /Anne
> >
> >
> > On 5. aug.. 2009, at 17.27, David Pollak wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Darren,
> >>>> I fully agree with you.  I have no plans to make ESME harder to use.
>  At
> >>>
> >>> its
> >>>>
> >>>> core, it's a micro-messaging system.  On the other hand, I do want to
> >>>
> >>> make
> >>>>
> >>>> it easier for people who are not Scala developers with access to the
> >>>> ESME
> >>>> source code to build applications on top of ESME.  I view this class
> of
> >>>
> >>> user
> >>>>
> >>>> as similar to "Excel power users."  But Excel power users often
> >>>
> >>> distribute
> >>>>
> >>>> spreadsheets to their co-workers that allow the non-power-users to get
> >>>> something new done.
> >>>
> >>> If it's too complicated, there could be a plugin/version "extra
> >>> actions" the way there are separate formula packages for Excel.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yeah... there has to be layered template libraries available to the
> power
> >> users.  This is part of the business model that I'm thinking about...
> >> basically... an eco-system (marketplace, app store) for composable
> >> elements.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For complex tasks like this, tooling matters. It should be easy to
> >>> compose/debug.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes.  I've been thinking about "play this range of updates" or
> >> "single-step
> >> this range of updates" so you can see what would happen if you applied
> >> certain transformations/accumulations.
> >>
> >>
> >>> ESME has some similarities to Yahoo!Pipes- both reroute
> >>> and transform pieces of text, but in a different context. However,
> >>> Yahoo!Pipes makes it easy to assemble components graphically like Lego
> >>> pieces, thereby ensuring that inappropriate pieces don't fit together.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yep.  Yahoo! Pipes is a great visual builder... but it also feels very
> >> "push" rather than "reach into the ether and find what I'm looking for."
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Vassil
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> >> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> >> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> >> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
> >
> >
>



-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

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