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From David Pollak <>
Subject Re: Nobody from the ASF is helping (ESME) sustain or build momentum or community
Date Sun, 03 May 2009 17:07:01 GMT
On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Gianugo Rabellino <> wrote:

> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Anne Kathrine Petteroe
> <> wrote:
> > I have a question for Erik.
> >
> > In a comment on David's post you say:
> > "I just don't see the path, other than perhaps Siemens, SAP, or some
> other
> > sponsor paying people to write the code. Which, of course, would fit with
> > other ASF projects."
> >
> > How does this sponsorship work?
> > Does ASF have projects which are commercial open source?
> Anne,
> I'm walking a fine line here, so full disclosure first (and apologies
> if it's perceived as spam): my company provides, among others, those
> kind of services and we have been, although in a somewhat different
> way, doing something very similar to sponsored work on another Apache
> project (POI) on behalf of a "sponsor" (Microsoft). I won't abuse any
> further of the public list, but feel free to contact me if you want to
> know more about what we did over there.

ESME is not a corporate sponsored project.  It's not a project funded by the
likes of Microsoft, SAP, etc.  It's a community effort.  If I were to choose
a firm to help guide ESME, I'd recommend RedMonk.  Why?  Because the RedMonk
folks are very good and have already participated in ESME (plus there are
good personal relationships.)

If you want to demonstrate that you've got any value to offer other than
trying to suck money out of Anne's budget for your services and piss on me,
perhaps you can be positive about helping to analyze ESME and what this
project needs to succeed in the ASF and beyond... without any corporate

Oh, and yes, I do have experience building open source communities.

> There are loads of issues to be aware of, and Bertrand correctly
> summarized the most relevant, but it's absolutely kosher to hire third
> parties to develop code that might eventually land in Apache (if the
> community agrees, and if the _individuals_ who are writing it manage
> to earn their way into the community). Actually, the Apache license is
> designed with that kind of flexibility in mind, and the Apache
> community is built on top of a great ecosystem which takes all sort of
> collaboration into account, including corporate employees,
> contractors, sponsors, services companies, consultants, students and
> geeks. We know and understand that the vast majority of code that
> lands @ the ASF has someone footing the bill, but the Foundation goes
> at extreme length to make sure that such contributions are handled in
> a community-friendly way with all the Apache magic (meritocracy,
> community over code, etc...) in mind.
> So, in short: money can buy development time, and that in turn can buy
> you (indirectly!) community outreach and help in building momentum
> towards a successful project. It's an added bonus for that development
> time to be invested in an Apache-friendly way (i.e. no "code dumps",
> people participating to the discussion, meritocracy and all that), as
> otherwise you would run the risk of seeing contributions being turned
> down. What money will not buy you is any particular ASF love, cut
> corners, graduation or bent rules: actually, doing it right might
> require some additional scrutiny (e.g. the "three indipendent business
> entities backing the project" might require some review if you were to
> hire a third party to actually work on your behalf), but it might also
> help building an open and diverse community which is able to withstand
> the test of time.
> HTH,
> --
> Gianugo Rabellino
> M: +44 779 5364 932 / +39 389 44 26 846
> Sourcesense - making sense of Open Source:

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