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From Erik Engbrecht <>
Subject Re: Nobody from the ASF is helping (ESME) sustain or build momentum or community
Date Sun, 03 May 2009 15:48:31 GMT
Basically the sponsoring company starts paying a developer to start hacking
a submit patches.  Eventually he should rise through the meritocracy and
become a committer.  Given the current level of activity on ESME and
assuming the developer is decent that shouldn't take long.
I don't think ASF does anything special with regards to sponsorship other
than provide a neutral ground for contributions and a framework that I think
can make corporations feel a little more comfortable with the idea of
letting their IP go out the door.

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Anne Kathrine Petteroe <>wrote:

> I have a question for Erik.
> In a comment on David's post you say:
> "I just don't see the path, other than perhaps Siemens, SAP, or some other
> sponsor paying people to write the code. Which, of course, would fit with
> other ASF projects."
> How does this sponsorship work?
> Does ASF have projects which are commercial open source?
> /Anne
> On 3. mai. 2009, at 11.25, Richard Hirsch wrote:
>  I agree with Vassil in that the main issue deals with the creation of
>> exceptional open-source code and the different ways to build the community
>> to support such code. Much of the debate revolving around the ASF concerns
>> unspoken expectations - what should / can ASF provide emerging projects.
>> As
>> Gianugo puts it
>>  The actual community building is however a task for the project itself:
>>> the
>>> ASF isn't Midas and won't be able to
>>> turn an unattractive project into sexy stuff that gathers time and
>>> enthusiasm from volunteers.
>> IMHO, the ASF provides the structure - based on years of experience - and
>> infrastructure to support such communities.  I
>> think all open-source projects want to succeed. There is always some
>> hidden
>> hope that the ASF's Midas touch will lead to a stream of new developers
>> contributing to this success.  I think in the ASF the focus is on doing
>> things the "Apache" way as a means of creating this community.  Although
>> ASF
>> can provide guidance based upon what has been successful in other Apache
>> projects, it can't be expected to do the grunt work for all its projects.
>> We could expect more "lessons learned" from other ASF projects coming from
>> the mentors but the actual application of these ideas has to come from us.
>> Speaking of grunt work, we should probably be considering what to do about
>> the necessity of rewriting the ESME codebase as  David and Erik describe.
>> We
>> can have the best wiki in the ASF but ESME is a software project and
>> without
>> a solid code base we aren't going to get very far.
>> D.
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Vassil Dichev <>
>> wrote:
>>  Without trying to get into David's mind, I'd like to point out that
>>> David's blog post was more of a reaction to defend the Rails
>>> community. I must say it's possible to get the point across even
>>> without the unfortunate comparison with the ASF. The point is this:
>>> it's hard writing exceptional software. I think you both agree on one
>>> count: even guidance and support don't guarantee a groundbreaking
>>> software project. If success was easy to reproduce, someone would have
>>> discovered a way of generating groundbreaking software projects on a
>>> mass scale.
>>> Now I don't think that a software project has to be groundbreaking to
>>> be useful. I have no illusions that ESME is destined to be as
>>> groundbreaking as e.g. Rails. I still hope it has the chance to be
>>> useful.
>>> With that said, I hope that any heated arguments originating from the
>>> Rails scandal are over soon, because there are probably no two people
>>> who agree on which software is useful or groundbreaking. And the time
>>> and effort spent in a discussion like this could be spent creating
>>> software.
>>> Vassil


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