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From "Kevin A. McGrail" <kmcgr...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Need to Invite Committee Members to meetings was Re: Recap from call w/ Outreachy's team
Date Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:08:19 GMT
I will be negative 1 and say that planners, also not a traditional pmc,
just had a complaint last month for this exact type of issue.  Made by
Sally Khudairi.

Regards, KAM

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 14:05 Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com.invalid>
wrote:

> +1
>
> ---
>
> Sent from my phone, likely while waking down the stars and having a
> conversation. Sorry about my carelessness, I blame the machines.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Griselda Cuevas <gris@apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 8:00:46 PM
> To: dev@diversity.apache.org <dev@diversity.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Need to Invite Committee Members to meetings was Re: Recap
> from call w/ Outreachy's team
>
> Thanks Myrle, and thank you Kevin for your intention to guide me.
>
> Even when I might be relatively new to the ASF (been here for 2 years), I
> want to clarify that this wasn't a "newbie mistake", I understand
> transparency is key in the Apache Way. I intentionally didn't invite the
> entire committee because this was a meeting I needed in order to make an
> informed decision on how to move forward once we sorted other matters.
>
> The Apache Way encourages transparency and I honored that by bringing back
> to the list the result of a meeting I called, I didn't make a decision nor
> hide the outcome.
>
> I anticipate that I will continue to have more meetings where I won't be
> able to invite the entire committee and I'd appreciate not to continue
> being corrected for that. I'm saying this not because I'm too proud or
> don't want to live by the Apache Way, I'm saying this because I want to get
> the freedom to work on my own style and also set the stage for other in
> this committee to do it.
>
> One more point I'd like to make is that, there is no need for the entire
> committee to be in every single discussion or project. There are so many
> initiatives, and we are short in hands. I'd love for us to be a team where
> we trust each other and we can delegate and lead.
>
> I hope you understand where I am coming from.
> G
>
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 10:34, Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > A reminder Kevin,
> >
> > While it is important to work to achieve buy-in from the many volunteers
> > Gris will need to help with the work, D&I is *not* a traditional PMC.
> > Think of it more like conferences.  Precisely because such efforts have,
> in
> > the past, been literally talked to death, the board chose a different
> > structure for this D&I project:  Gris both needs, *and*  *has*  the right
> > to operate as VP Diversity, as she has done here.
> >
> > What's more: she has already put in an *enormous* amount of effort to
> > achieve buy-in from the volunteers here.  So even though she has the
> right
> > to make executive decisions, she's clearly not making them without
> > consultation.  Gris is doing what I, as a board member, intended her to
> be
> > able to do when I voted for both the first and the second resolution on
> > D&I.  I have full faith in both her ability to continue doing it, and in
> > Sam's ability to call Gris to accounts if she slips out of the bounds of
> > that role.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Myrle
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:04 PM Kevin A. McGrail <kmcgrail@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 7/8/2019 12:51 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> > > > "If it didn't happen on the list it didn't happen" does not mean
> > nothing
> > > can happen in this way, only that decisions are not made without time
> for
> > > community feedback and engagement.
> > > >
> > > > No problem in this case. Thank you for keeping things moving.
> > >
> > > Ross,
> > >
> > > The committee not being notified it was happening and not extending the
> > > invite to others on list is a no-no.
> > >
> > > For similar complaints, see Sally's complaint on June 2nd for the
> > > Hackathon meetings with too little notice for the bridge information on
> > > planners@.  Luckily Rich had emailed about it previously so this was
> > > just the logistics details and more announcements were made since.
> > >
> > > We need to give Gris and others new to Apache correct guidance.   Using
> > > synchronous comms especially meetings without everyone invited are
> > > pitfalls for a lack of inclusion and definitely not in line with the
> > > Apache Way.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > KAM
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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