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From Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Subject Re: Advantages of Diversity and Inclusion
Date Sun, 14 Jul 2019 11:21:05 GMT
Yes, I was referring to Kylin et al.

And I see that you also completely missed my point, not even attempting to
see it, but I won't beat dead horses.

Niclas



On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:12 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nicolas,
>
> We do have enormous parts of the world which do not participate much in
> Apache (and thus are isolated)
>
> There are limits to participation ... perhaps not EXplicit limits, but
> there are definitely IMplicit limitations.
>
> And please provide some basis for your claim that there are Apache projects
> are do not have a majority of straight white males. In fact, I will up the
> ante .. let's say straight white males from the US and western Europe. Are
> you thinking of a few groups like Singa or Kylin that have a surprisingly
> large number of participants from Asia? Those are almost the exception that
> proves the rule.
>
> And, by the way, the argument for diversity is a bit more substantial than
> your strawman argument. The real argument is that diverse experience and
> expertise leads to better solutions because with a community made up of
> nearly identical members, these members will tend to have very similar
> blindspots. A great example of this is ASCII. The developers (English
> speakers in the US in the late 50's and early 60's) saw no real problem
> with omitting ü, å, ø and ñ. Even when the community broadened to include
> speakers of German, Danish, French, Spanish, Swedish and other languages,
> it took many decades to correct the limitations of ASCII. More diversity
> earlier would have saved some of that pain. I have seen many other examples
> in my career where early designs had horrendous problems that could have
> easily been avoided with a bit broader set of points of view. A
> mono-culture may get started more quickly and be more comfortable early on,
> but a diverse community is likely to give us a much better result.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 6:14 PM Niclas Hedhman <niclas@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > The argument goes something like this (strawman warning); By expanding
> our
> > communities with identifiably under-represented groups (that should have
> an
> > interest in what the ASF is doing) will bring additional points of view,
> > new ideas, ways to do things, cultural input to the software and such.
> >
> > Personally, I don't think our communities are like society as a whole,
> > because a) we are not isolated geographically, b) has no limitation on
> > joining our efforts and c) straight, white males is an under represented
> > group in some projects, and answering "why?" for that, will most likely
> > answer the question on a broader scale for what makes ASF different. But
> > that is probably a too sensitive topic to touch on...
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:52 AM Awasum Yannick <awasum@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Do we have resources on the advantages of D&I to the Foundation and
> Tech
> > > industry in general?
> > >
> > > I know this has been touched in different threads all over the lists
> but
> > I
> > > wanted a separate thread to really understand the advantages.
> > >
> > > Is it about under represented people participating and contributing
> their
> > > opinions and experience to make a project, product or community better?
> > >
> > > I am interesting in the real benefit of D&I to people who are well
> > > represented. What will motivate an over represented person to do D&I
> > work?
> > > Is there a logical advantage or benefit to them?
> > >
> > > Sorry, if this is off topic but I have not been able to answer it from
> > the
> > > perspective of an over represented person. Because, I keep asking
> myself
> > > why will someone who enjoy privilege be willing to change things if
> they
> > > dont see a benefit for them(self interest).
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Awasum.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
> >
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java

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