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From David Jencks <>
Subject Re: [server.xml] Discussion
Date Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:41:38 GMT

On Dec 3, 2008, at 5:53 AM, Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:

> Graham Leggett wrote:
>> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>>> I can't agree more :/ I already mentionned the fact that using  
>>> spring + xbeans was most certainly a bad decision (IMHO), leading  
>>> to more problems than solutions...
>>> But this might be just me :)
>> I completely agree.
>> The acid test is in the error messages: if a user gets a message  
>> that makes no sense to an end user, then the software is  
>> fundamentally broken. Spring moves lots of stuff that would  
>> otherwise be caught by your compiler (using annotations and other  
>> useful things) into the runtime, and this means end users hit the  
>> bugs, not the developers.
> <personal opinion>
> I will go a bit forward (and it's not totally related to ADS) :  
> IMHO, Spring itself is just not the way to go when you want to offer  
> a solution which is not embeddable only. It does not make sense.
> I think that the DI/IOC approach has been stretched far too much.  
> From a cool techno, very usefull when you want to develop a  
> pluggable system, that's just fine. Otherwise, it's just following  
> the buzz, and abusing the idea badly.
> </personal opinion>
> From the ADS pov, I don't think we will have time to change  
> anything, unless we spend a serious amount of time defining a better  
> solution in the next few months. This can be discussed too...

Several people on this list sure like to complain about xbean-spring  
but I still don't really understand what they would prefer.  IMO the  
idea behind component oriented wiring frameworks like xbean-spring is  
that all the exposed configuration knobs and wires are things that  
reasonable users will want to turn or rewire.  xbean-spring gives you  
a machine-syntax-checkable way to turn all the knobs and plug in all  
the wires. (spring alone is not machine-syntax-checkable).  If you  
don't like it there are several possibilities I can think of....

- too many or too few knobs and wires.  This means the components  
aren't the right size, and is not really a problem with xbean-spring

- pointy brackets are too sharp and makes my eyes bleed.  xml really  
sucks, but its widely understood, syntax-checkable, and doesn't  
require compilation.  Wiring in java is very clear but requires  
compilation.  Groovy builders are really nice but AFAIK don't really  
have machine syntax validation.

Certainly in spring and I think in xbean-spring you can pull some  
commonly modified properties out into a properties file.  Perhaps this  
could be used to supply a "sysadmin-friendly" set of knobs to turn for  
stuff like ports and enabled flags along with the full xml  
configuration file.

david jencks

> -- 
> --
> cordialement, regards,
> Emmanuel L├ęcharny

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