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From "Leo Li" <liyilei1...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: What about Kerberos becoming a separate project ?
Date Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:19:46 GMT
Hi, all:
     I happend to find this thread. Is it a little outdate? :)
     Harmony project is now implementing a JGSS provider which
contains a lot of work with kerberos. We intend to borrow kerberos
related code from apache Directory and it will be great if kerberos is
a seperate project. And I also acknowledge the concern to maintain a
sub project and I think we can give some help if we can and are
looking forward to its becoming true.


On 9/24/07, Emmanuel Lecharny <elecharny@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, as usual, I just click on 'reply' instead of 'reply all' ...
>
> So here is my reply to Alex's mail :
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Emmanuel Lecharny <elecharny@gmail.com>
> Date: Sep 23, 2007 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: What about Kerberos becoming a separate project ?
> To: Alex Karasulu <akarasulu@apache.org>
>
>
> On 9/23/07, Alex Karasulu <akarasulu@apache.org> wrote:
> > Ok let me try to clarify below ...
> >
> > On 9/22/07, Emmanuel Lecharny <elecharny@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Just to clarify my proposal : I just want Kerberos to be clearly
> > > separated from apacheds, as is daemon, shaed and installers.
> >
> > Yep I understand that.  But when you create another subproject it's like
> > another offering of a product
> > that is voted upon etc.  We must be able to support that product in the same
> > manner that we support
> > the server or studio for example.  Doing so is more than just a matter of
> > project organization in this
> > sense.   You're telling users that we're open for business and we simply are
> > not.  Look at the situation
> > we had with the guy who inquired about DNS.  No one could help him.
>
> yeah, makes more sense to me now. I agree with you. Let's finish
> Kerberos, let it be a community part before making it a separate
> project. It will take time, so I have created a special branch to
> evolve in this direction, without engaging the community to move
> around code, tests, pom.xml, packaging, etc, before we are ready.
>
> >
> > As djencks said in another thread - I did not review a patch request.  This
> > however is different from
> > turning back users.  A dev issue can wait but the project really looks bad
> > when we tell users sorry
> > that functionality we advertise is really unsupported and no one can help
> > you with it.  Plus you have
> > more users than developers waiting on feedback.
>
> very true.
>
> >
> > > The fact that there is not enough community does not have anything to
> > > do with it, being part of apacheds or not won't help at all to gather
> > > some new committers around it. However, it can still be a plugin, but
> > > I would like it to be less tighly coupled with apacheds.
> > >
> > > I must admit I don't understand your -1.
> >
> > Does it make more sense now?
>
> Yes, much more. Sorry if I didn't get the whole picture, it was not
> obvious to me at first sight. My intention was good, but maybe a
> little bit premature.
>
> >
> > This veto is with respect to this point in time of course.  This is not for
> > ever.  We can do with it what
> > we like as long as we have community around the code.
>
> Sure. And I'm working on it.
>
> >
> > Just a heads up on my modus operandi.  I like to take risks sometimes with
> > new projects and we did
> > that with studio and it was a total success.  It was a risk tho and still to
> > some degree is because we
> > only have two guys that deal with it.  Generally the rules are that we need
> > at least 3 active committers
> > to start a subproject.  However going back risks are good to take and
> > sometimes they produce good
> > results.  Studio is an example of a risk that was very successful.
>
> I think we debated about those kind of risks months ago. TripleSec,
> Kerberos, DNS, NTP, etc, are such projects which put us on dire
> straigth as soon as some users want to use them, because no more than
> one committer is able to help them. We have had to sandbox Naming,
> sar-plugin and we are talking about DNS sandbox or moiving it to Mina
> for this exact reason. Other subprojects like OSGi are sandboxed just
> because we can't work on it before we reach a stable version (namely,
> 2.0).
>
> All those decision has to be balanced, and sometime, we win, sometime,
> we loose. That's just life, I guess...
>
> >
> > Now I took the risk with the Kerberos stuff and softened the requirements
> > because technically it was
> > too attractive to forgo.  When Enrique wanted to do cool things with DNS and
> > DHCP I was also very
> > open but worried since it was moving too fast with a single guy at the helm.
> >  So then when we could
> > not maintain the quality of support that's when I started battening down the
> > hatches.
>
> I agree. Kerberos is really a corner stone we can't neglect. My
> proposal was just trying to get it under the sunligts, but I agree I
> must finish my homeworks before kerberos being able to become a
> standalone project. I must admit I haven't finished what I thought
> would take me only a couple of weeks (a gross under evaluation), but
> at the end, we should have a code which is owned by the community, ie
> not only Enrique or me, but by anyone who can jump into the code,
> patch it, improve it, use it. We are far from this point.
>
> >
> > Now I take no risks in this area.  There's just too much exposure here now.
> > It's time to hold back
> > and fix our issues.
>
> The fact is that ADS as a whole has grown up to a point that it's not
> anymore a 3 men proects. David pointed out that may be we are trying
> to keep the number of committers low by requesting new committers to
> respect a full set of rules we don't even fulfill, but at some point,
> I don't think this is what is happening. When I jumped into ADS, it
> was Alex, Trustin, Enrique, Alan and a bunch of almost inactive
> committers. It was 2,5 years. We are now 11 actives committers : Alex,
> Chris, Christine, David, Enrique, Ersin, Martin, Pierre-Arnaud,
> Stefan, Stefan and me. The community is vibrant, we have successfully
> released 6 versions this year : ADS 1.0.1, 1.0.1, 1.5.0 and 1.5.1, and
> Studio 1.0.0 and 1.0.1. More than 6800 people have downloaded Apache
> Directory Studio, and around 3000 of them since sept, 1st. This is a
> great success, but we are now in a situation where we must be more and
> more carefull with the project.
>
> >
> > You Emmanuel are now getting into this code base and this is great.  Perhaps
> > Enrique can help
> > you and then both of you can help another person who comes on.  But once we
> > have 3 people that
> > can support this code then we're good to offer it as another product with
> > all the exposure that brings.
>
> Absolutly.
>
> >
> > I'm in love with the idea that we can offer Kerberos based products
> > standalone or as plugins.  But
> > we need to do it carefully.
>
> For many reasons I also addressed in my previous comment, I'm 100%
> with you on that.
>
> >
> > So keep on increasing the community and let's talk in 12 months. If the
> > conditions change so will my
> > vote.
>
> Ok, np. It's up to us to make it happen. There is no hurry, we have to
> be careful.
>
> Thanks for having clarifying your position, this was good to have the
> full picture. I'm backing you now !
>
> E.
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel L├ęcharny
> www.iktek.com
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel L├ęcharny
> www.iktek.com
>


-- 
Leo Li
China Software Development Lab, IBM

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