Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-directory-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 43430 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 10:03:48 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 10:03:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 38130 invoked by uid 500); 23 Apr 2007 10:03:54 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-directory-dev-archive@directory.apache.org Received: (qmail 38099 invoked by uid 500); 23 Apr 2007 10:03:54 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@directory.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: "Apache Directory Developers List" Delivered-To: mailing list dev@directory.apache.org Received: (qmail 38088 invoked by uid 99); 23 Apr 2007 10:03:54 -0000 Received: from herse.apache.org (HELO herse.apache.org) (140.211.11.133) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:03:54 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (herse.apache.org: domain of elecharny@gmail.com designates 66.249.82.239 as permitted sender) Received: from [66.249.82.239] (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.239) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:03:46 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so1726028wxd for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:03:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=bhjIWB+HJ7yXRlQpQ9WpQEzGZK9kGfxdOlIZ9oyQxlKr+j04yeyXbGfuRsBjYneWJwXLE89R/SVcsESujo4WVRreg5awoZvnoqpDo94MuEJLfSKGjz0gftMYKViqOWG2eKDDz2ytO04l3MosvhaSlxVYL0gArtrS7mrfhe3pM/k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=dqiTlV+m5mo/E2S6HfxcLcXdJCJ6DSzXfTZ6NLm2xQWKvpJBH8mBeyKA2JWlpRxdX5wOrxMynKuEmumEDOQvQL1Yptgg3h1lu7ymBGny/AOWxflQBsSzcUQYAFNd5qAc2iW+9X1rj34h1VE0b9MSgABKasl6xY00QqWjxgM5c+U= Received: by 10.78.204.20 with SMTP id b20mr987442hug.1177322604732; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.3 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:03:24 +0200 From: "Emmanuel Lecharny" Reply-To: elecharny@iktek.com To: "Apache Directory Developers List" Subject: Re: Question of container history of ApacheDS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_134202_27366842.1177322604665" References: <462B25CC.6060205@labeo.de> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org ------=_Part_134202_27366842.1177322604665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Alex, just a question : back two years later, I remembe rthat all the configuration was provided through a property file, so I guess we can't really talk about a container approach back them, am I wrong ? On 4/23/07, Alex Karasulu wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > > Well let me break down the history behind our container drama :). It > started out a while back in the first days of ldapd over at SF.net in > 2002. I started using Avalon Phoenix back then and had carved out blocks > (components in Avalon terms) for each of the subsystems. This was course > grained. > > When ldapd came to Apache and became ApacheDS we started switching from > Phoenix to Merlin which was the "new" container that factions in Avalon w= ere > pushing. And it looked like Phoenix was going to die and it did sort of > with one last trip out of the fire as Loom at codehaus. Loom also died I > think. I was sad to see this happen since Phoenix was a damn good contai= ner > for Avalon. It just worked. Loom and Phoenix were totally compatible. > > With all this flux at Avalon I just abandoned messing around with IoC and > got a bad taste in my mouth over it. So I tried to write most of the mod= ern > subsystems with simple POJOs while keeping an open eye for some container > to come along and make my day. > > Trustin at some point got sick of using env properties inside the JNDI > provider to describe complex objects and talked me into using Spring just > for configuration. I was reluctant at first but it fixed some problems f= or > us. The env hashtable based approach with key value pairs was just a > hassle. So this is how Spring came into the picture. We could have used > other things like commons-configuration but I did not have the time to lo= ok > into that at the time. We do not use Spring for anything other than > configuration. > > I am hoping this OSGi stuff is the silver bullet to fix all of Java's > container wars as the victor. So we can go back to using a container for > more than just configuration. Looks btw like the Spring guys got infecte= d > by the OSGi bug so there might be some cross pollination going on between > these efforts. > > I am optimistic mostly because of the Spring guys' interest. > > Alex > > On 4/22/07, Stefan Zoerner wrote: > > > > Question on the rationale behind using Spring (especially to the vetera= n > > > > developers): > > > > I know that early versions/predecessors of ApacheDS used other > > frameworks (Avalon?). Which frameworks or lightweight containers were > > used/considered in the progress before Spring? Is there any > > documentation on the architectural decision or rationale to use Spring? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Stefan Zoerner (szoerner) > > > > > --=20 Regards, Cordialement, Emmanuel L=E9charny www.iktek.com ------=_Part_134202_27366842.1177322604665 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Alex, just a question :

back two years later, I remembe rthat all t= he configuration was provided through a property file, so I guess we can= 9;t really talk about a container approach back them, am I wrong ?


On 4/23/07, Alex Karasulu <akarasulu= @apache.org> wrote:
Hi Stefan,

Well let me break down the history behind our container d= rama :).  It started out a while back in the first days of ldapd over = at SF.net in 2002.  I started using Avalon Phoenix back then and had c= arved out blocks (components in Avalon terms) for each of the subsystems. T= his was course grained.

When ldapd came to Apache and became ApacheDS we started switching = from Phoenix to Merlin which was the "new" container that faction= s in Avalon were pushing.   And it looked like Phoenix was going = to die and it did sort of with one last trip out of the fire as Loom at cod= ehaus.  Loom also died I think.  I was sad to see this happen sin= ce Phoenix was a damn good container for Avalon.  It just worked. = ; Loom and Phoenix were totally compatible.

With all this flux at Avalon I just abandoned messing around with I= oC and got a bad taste in my mouth over it.  So I tried to write most = of the modern subsystems with simple POJOs while keeping an open eye for so= me container to  come along and make my day.

Trustin at some point got sick of using env properties inside the J= NDI provider to describe complex objects and talked me into using Spring ju= st for configuration.  I was reluctant at first but it fixed some prob= lems for us.  The env hashtable based approach with key value pairs wa= s just a hassle.  So this is how Spring came into the picture.  W= e could have used other things like commons-configuration but I did not hav= e the time to look into that at the time.  We do not use Spring for an= ything other than configuration.=20

I am hoping this OSGi stuff is the silver bullet to fix all of Java= 's container wars as the victor.  So we can go back to using a con= tainer for more than just configuration.  Looks btw like the Spring gu= ys got infected by the OSGi bug so there might be some cross pollination go= ing on between these efforts.

I am optimistic mostly because of the Spring guys' interest.
Alex


On 4/22/07, Stefan Zoerner <stefan@labeo.de > wrote:
Question on the rationale behind using Spring (especially to the veter= an
developers):

I know that early versions/predecessors of ApacheDS= used other
frameworks (Avalon?). Which frameworks or lightweight contai= ners were
used/considered in the progress before Spring? Is there any
documentation on the architectural decision or rationale to use Spring?=

Thanks in advance,
     Stefan Zoerner (szoe= rner)





--
Regards,Cordialement,
Emmanuel L=E9charny
= www.iktek.com ------=_Part_134202_27366842.1177322604665--