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From Christoph Engelbert <noctar...@apache.org>
Subject Re: MapDB
Date Wed, 07 Nov 2012 20:51:39 GMT
Am 07.11.2012 21:37, schrieb Raffaele P. Guidi:
> Well I don't quite get what you mean for serialization frameworks... kryo,
> protostuff and lightning serialize pojos without any configuration and even
> without the need to implement an interface such as Serializable. They just
> work and are fast and general purpose.

Most purposes :-) Lightning cannot serialize everything as Java
Serialization but 99% of all the standard POJOs you'll see in the
normal Java environment.
This is due to the case that Lightning was started as a serializer
for highly-concurrent (Lightning is completely threadsafe) and high
throughput clustered environments where only transfer object are used.

> Ciao,
>     R
> Il giorno 07/nov/2012 21:30, "Jan Kotek" <kjan80@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Roman,
>>
>> your patch saved me lot of headaches and was very welcomed.
>>
>> I am not using Quickser becouse serialization in MapDB is still evolving
>> rapidly. For example I made some refactoring to make serialization less
>> dependant on other JDBM classes. I also have plan to use some stuff from
>> Kryo and Lighting (unsafe ops, bytecode generators). And Quickser did not
>> had much updates since it forked.
>>
>> Obviously it is more comfortable for me if serialization framework stays
>> inside MapDB. It is critical part since in database we care about long term
>> persistence. But on other side I would love if somebody would took over
>> this part. I have no problem with extracting serialization to separate
>> project, but I need to see that this fork is active and can evolve on its
>> own.
>>
>> I hoped I could use Lightning, Kryo or other framework developed as part
>> of DirectMemory. But there seems to be conception difference.  Kryo and
>> Lightning seems to be more like 'serialization framework'; it has bunch of
>> serializers (for numbers, dates...) and you should choose one which suits
>> you best.
>>
>> But MapDB should 'just work' without additional configuration. So I need
>> universal serialization; it should turn any object into bytes  (similar to
>> Java Serialization or XStream). Also I want it to mimic standard Java
>> Serialization (Serializable marker interface, Externalizable, writeExternal
>> methods... etc).
>>
>> So for now I will investigate if I can patch Lighting to support my needs.
>> If not I will take parts I like and integrate it into MapDB.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> On 07/11/12 09:30, Roman Levenstein wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm one of the contributors to JDMB3 serialization implementation.
>>> Actually earlier this year I made it much faster than before (2 orders
>>> of magnitude). And BTW, I'm also a contributor to Kryo and
>>> protostuff-runtime.
>>>
>>> I find this discussion very interesting, so let me provide my two cents
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> First of all, I just want to mention that while working on improving
>>> JDBM's serialization, I extracted the serialization part of the JDBM
>>> into a dedicated serialization library, which I called Quickser. You
>>> can find it on GitHub: https://github.com/romix/**quickser<https://github.com/romix/quickser>
>>> It is really very fast, often faster than Kryo and protostuff. Since
>>> Quickser contains only serialization-related stuff from JDBM/MapDB, it
>>> is easier to use it if you just want to add yet another serialization
>>> method to DM without any DB related functionality.
>>>
>>> It could even make sense, if MapDB would use Quickser for
>>> serialization instead of having both DB and serialization related
>>> functionality in one pot.
>>>
>>> @Jan: What do you think about it? I understand that you don't like
>>> external dependencies. But Quickser is not really external. It is more
>>> or less a copy of JDMBs serialization-related classes.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Jan Kotek <kjan80@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       1. DirectMemory could make good use of mapdb to serialize least
>>>>>      frequently used items to disk and free memory
>>>>>      2. DirectMemory could implement a MapDB disk based store in
>>>>> addition
>>>>> to
>>>>>      the bytebuffer and unsafe ones
>>>>>
>>>> The only problem may be that MapDB currently does not support concurrent
>>>> transactions (it has only one single global transaction).
>>>> Not sure if it could be a problem.
>>>>
>>>> However it implements ConcurrentMap, so it is possible to swap items
>>>> atomically
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       3. MapDB could take advantage of DM's componentization approach to
>>>>>      support multiple serializers (we believe each one has its
>>>>> advantages
>>>>> in
>>>>>      different scenarios)
>>>>>
>>>> MapDB already supports alternative serializers. User can supply their
>>>> own on
>>>> Map (similar to table) creation.
>>>> I would love to integrate stuff from lightning serializer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       4. MapDB could use DM to write items to an off-heap before writing
>>>>> to
>>>>>      disk (asynchronously) to improve speed
>>>>>
>>>> Not sure it would be practical. MapDB already uses memory mapped files so
>>>> effect would be very similar. My tests shows that there is only 50%
>>>> performance difference between inMemory store and onDisk store.
>>>>
>>>> Currently MapDB has only heap based inMemory store. But implementing off
>>>> heap memory store is trivial and I will do it soon.
>>>>
>>> This is very nice to know. Looking forward to see this feature. May be
>>> you should use DM for it?
>>>
>>>       5. We could merge our serialization efforts (I believe lightning is
>>>>> very  fast and worth to be considered) and provide an even better
>>>>> solution
>>>>> or two alternative implementations
>>>>>
>>>> 100% agree. I will check lightning sources and see if I could contribute
>>>> my
>>>> stuff. MapDB serialization is very space-efficiency oriented and it can
>>>> contribute a lot.
>>>>
>>> Well, having worked with JDBM's/MapDB's serialization, Kryo and
>>> protostuff, I would say that MapDB's serialization is space-efficient,
>>> but roughly at the same level as Kryo or a bit worse than latest
>>> versions of Kryo.
>>>
>>> IMHO, the biggest advantage of MapDB's serialization is its speed. It
>>> usually wins against highly optimized versions of Kryo and protostuff,
>>> even though they use Unsafe tricks and the like. To some extent this
>>> speed improvement  can be probably attributed to the  simplicity of
>>> MapDB's serialization implementation. It is not very feature rich, but
>>> very small and simple (just a few classes) and call stacks during
>>> serialization are usually also very short. Probably JIT is able to
>>> optimize and inline much better than in other more complex and
>>> universal frameworks.
>>>
>>>  My only condition is that lighting is distributed in separate JAR. I like
>>>> minimal dependencies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  In both cases we would be open to contribution in different forms - just
>>>>> contributing patches or with you to join us and the ASF as module or
>>>>> subproject (the latter options have to undergo a formal vote by all
>>>>> project
>>>>> members, of course) as I strongly believe that merging efforts would
>>>>> bring
>>>>> to a better and more complete product.
>>>>>
>>>> I would prefer  MapDB to stay on GitHub.  I find it more comfortable to
>>>> use.
>>>> JDBM3 (previous version) nearly become ApacheDS subproject, but on last
>>>> moment I decided otherwise.
>>>>
>>> I strongly agree with Jan here. JDBM/MapDB is used by most people as a
>>> DB or persistent map.
>>> Its serialization functionality is nice to have, but not the most
>>> important feature of it.
>>> At the same time, for DM such things like off-heap mgmt and
>>> serialization are the most important ones, but persistency is
>>> optional.
>>> Therefore, IMHO both project should remain independent and cooperate
>>> or make use of each other. But they should not be integrated into one
>>> "megaproject", which can do everything.
>>>
>>> -Roman
>>>
>>>


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