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From Roman Levenstein <romix...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: FYI: BigMemory Go announcement from Terracotta
Date Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:09:04 GMT
Hi Rafaelle,

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Raffaele P. Guidi
<raffaele.p.guidi@gmail.com> wrote:
> I knew about bigmemory go (I even retweeted the announcement with the
> DirectMemory account) and, yes, I think it could be a sign that open source
> efforts (ours but also the one of the bigcache guys) are, if not scary for
> those big guys, at least an option that cannot be overseen. Another way to
> read it is that maybe the BigMemory market share is not _that_ profitable
> (don't know anything about Terracotta BigMemory and Hazelcast Elastic
> Memory sale numbers, though) and prices are getting down.

And there is yet another possible explanation:
The market for in-memory solutions (DBs, data-grids, etc) is starting
to take-off.
Therefore it is important to get a lot of customers/developers on hook
right from the beginning, so that you can later own a big market
share.
And giving the lite versions of products for free is a well-known
practice in such cases.

> We also knew of the BigCache effort- someone of the team tried to contact
> them with a "join efforts" proposal but - with no luck - which is a pity -
> wanna try pushing at them? ;)

Hmm. I tried a few times to contact them on a different occasion, but
never got any response.

> Your idea about learning from their API and adopting it is quite good -
> actually so good that we already did it :P and in our offering we have a
> compatibility module that allows to use DirectMemory with ehcache replacing
> BigMemory. T

This is really cool!

> his last little known but relevant fact could ease things a lot
> comparing performance of the two but:
>
>    1. DirectMemory is a young product not backed by any corporate effort -
>    BigMemory has been probably quite better tested on the field and it could
>    possibily perform better even though it could borrow some ideas from the
>    little open source guys :)
>    2. BigMemory (and also elastic memory) is a commercial product with a
>    closed license - keep in mind that while every one could come up with a
>    benchmark comparing the two (the three?) - the license could (as it usually
>    does) _prohibit_ publishing comparative benchmarks results and this should
>    be thoroughly checked before attempting to do that. It could possibly apply
>    to the free version as well

I agree with your point that it is eventually forbidden to publish results.
But can they forbid a customer to do her own benchmarks? I guess this
is not possible.
So, what can be done, is to provide a good set of easy to run
benchmarks (but not their results) for all 2 (or 3) of available
solutions that can be performed by any user.
This way you still obey to the license restrictions, but customers can
now run on their own those benchmarks and make their conclusions ;-)

> Said that, someone could take care of checking #2 reading their licensing
> notice and, in any case, another good (and maybe better) fit for a
> performance benchmarking could be a one-to-one with memcached (with a java
> connector). A tough one (memcached is written in C or C++ with a long
> record of successes) but, if you think about it, it is probably the most
> widely used off-heap cache ever - and it's open source, so benchmarking
> could be published with no issues. And when the going gets though...

I'm not sure that memcached is a good choice as a competitor. May be
for web apps it is the case.
But IMHO, in-memory databases and similar systems are the real
competitors and this is also where the market moves. Think about Big
Data (Hadoop with in-memory acceleration, Cassandra with off-heap
storage, etc), in-memory DBs (e.g. Hana from SAP) for real-time
analytics systems and many more. Almost all of those systems
use/would benefit from a good off-heap in-memory solutions, which
usually run in the same process for performance reasons. I think
DirectMemory could be a valuable component to build such systems if it
would focus more on easier integration with such systems and provide
explicit support for many of them.

Ciao,
     Roman

> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Roman Levenstein <romixlev@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Terracotta announced that they offer a feature-limited version of
>> their BigMemory product for free under the name "BigMemory Go".
>> The main limitation is that you can use at most 32GB of off-heap
>> memory per JVM instance and there is no support for a replication and
>> clustering of caches between JVMs/nodes.
>> http://terracotta.org/products/bigmemorygo
>>
>> It looks like off-heap caching solutions are gaining more attention
>> these days. One of the reasons for Terracotta's move could be a wish
>> to counteract offerings from competitors and open-source analogs.
>>
>> Since it is available now, it would be very interesting to see some
>> benchmarks comparing off-heap memory solutions from DirectMemory and
>> Terracota. Is there anyone willing to give it a try? :-)
>> From their documentation is sounds like they use a standard Java
>> serialization, which means that DirectMemory could be even faster than
>> BigMemory, because it uses more efficient serializers.
>> Also their implementation of  querying/indexing does not sound like
>> very optimized. May be it is another place, where DirectMemory could
>> be better. If overall DirectMemory would show a comparable or better
>> performance, it would add it a lot of credibility, IMHO.
>>
>> Another thing, which could be interesting is to look at their APIs and
>> to see if something could be/should be modeled after it or made
>> similar to it, so that users can easily switch from their
>> closed-source solutions to an open-source solution.
>>
>> The third thing is: it could be interesting and useful to join forces
>> among open-source projects that have a similar goal of providing
>> efficient serialization and off-heap memory.
>> Right now we have something like this:
>> - (distributed) off-heap caches: DirectMemory, BigCache
>> (http://bigcache.org/site/) and Hazelcast Enterprise (off-heap support
>> is closed-source at the moment)
>> - serialization: kryo, protostuff, lightning, protocol buffers and
>> many, many more implementations, which all look very similar
>> IMHO, too much effort is wasted re-implementing the same functionality
>> every time by every project. If those projects (especially off-heap
>> caching impls) would work together it would lead much faster to much
>> better results. What do you think? Any plans to co-operate with any of
>> those?
>>
>> Regards,
>>   Roman
>>

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