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From Werner Keil <>
Subject Re: Leaving DeviceMap
Date Sun, 19 Apr 2015 15:57:28 GMT

Thanks a lot for your contribution. Note, I was never co PMC chair neither
during incubation nor after it.

I am simply a PMC member and initial contributor. And being involved in not
just Apache I deal with standards also in the places where they are
actually shaped.
Like the majority of Apache projects I know about the value of open
standards and I don't suffer from a "not invented here" syndrom trying to
abandon widely-accepted standards (like every commercial vendor other than
WURFL uses W3C DDR;-) or reivent our own here. You may succeed doing so if
you're Google or Apple, but even the likes of Google, Facebook and many
others usually contribute to open standards instead of trying to tweak or
abuse them. IE9-11 is a perfect example which everyone who deals with web
apps or user agents should know about. Microsoft tried to throw away many
established W3C HTML or CSS standards. Causing their browser to become
nearly irrelevant over time and disregarded by many web developers. As a
co-speaker in Rome working on "Spartan" confirmed, they now hired many of
the best people from Open Source communities or projects, and in fact,
Spartan should stick to available standards. While Microsoft helps even
Google to shape them in other areas like JS.

If you're unable to understand the value of standards, that alone answers
who had the unprofessional attitude. And those who wish to contribute
usually don't. See things Eberhard did right in the .NET port like keeping
the client code separate from a "console". Something not just I claimed was
a problem. but instead of fixing that you reacted in a childish.
unprofessional way and so far the Classifier/Client has not been fixed
regarding that issue either. Thus the Apache community and DeviceMap users
appreciate your effort, but it seems better that you contribute to
something else. Take Stephen  Colebourne (who is still Apache Member btw,
but stopped contributing a while ago after he found Apache was "too
democratic" to push his own ideas through in a project like commons) His
Joda* projects are neverthenless popular, so if you end up writing some
Reza* projects on GitHub or elsewhere, why not there you neither have to
find consent in a team nor ask a Board for permission;-)


On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Reza Naghibi <> wrote:

> Hey, so this is notice that I will be leaving DeviceMap. I will be stepping
> down from the PMC and will no longer continue my duties or contribute to
> this project.
> While there have been a few successful aspects during my time at DeviceMap,
> as a whole, my experience here has not been good. The majority of my
> problems stem from the constant arguing, unprofessionalism, and personal
> attacks from my fellow PMC chair, Werner. Instead of focusing on writing
> and releasing software, all my time and energy is spent on how to manage
> Werner. This is not what I signed up for. Sorry to be so blunt here, but I
> just want to make it clear as to why I am leaving.
> I could stick around for another year or so and continue with the constant
> arguments, possibly more waves of personal attacks, get into a version war
> with the legacy ODDR client, and deal with the constant little reminders of
> how ODDR client got everything right. All of this while trying to push
> forward with 2.0. I simply choose to walk away.
> As for 2.0, I highly encourage this project to pursue 2.0 and evolve, if
> they wish. At some point in the future, I will likely branch and continue
> my proposed 2.0 work under a different space, name, and version.
> Thanks,
> Reza Naghibi

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