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From Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: cdi-query
Date Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:37:02 GMT
maybe packaging it with such modules is more relevent:

-> deltaspike-tx (@Transactional, jta), no link to jpa
-> deltaspike-jpa (potentially resource local management)

wdyt?

- Romain


2012/6/27 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>

> For today while DS is "small" sure.
>
> Note: a bundle deltaspike-all is still welcome i think.
>
> - Romain
> Le 27 juin 2012 20:08, "Mark Struberg" <struberg@yahoo.de> a écrit :
>
> Ok, I understand that point. Would it be fine to just have them in
>> separated packages?
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> >To: Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>;
>> deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:53 PM
>> >Subject: Re: cdi-query
>> >
>> >
>> >Not really, myfaces is not here.
>> >And you are as bas as me wanting to impose your view Mark.
>> >One jar by purpose is easier to maintain or patch too...one jar by class
>> is a pain.
>> >On the ee/jee i think it is important to split to ease people to
>> understand what they use.
>> >- Romain
>> >Le 27 juin 2012 19:24, "Mark Struberg" <struberg@yahoo.de> a écrit :
>> >
>> >This is a perfectly bad example! With this shaded jar you cannot easily
>> upgrade single projects like MyFaces to a newer version...
>> >>
>> >>LieGrue,
>> >>strub
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> >>> To: deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>> Cc:
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:22 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: cdi-query
>> >>>
>> >>> javaee-api in openejb for instance:
>> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openejb/trunk/javaee-api/pom.xml
>> >>>
>> >>> - Romain
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2012/6/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@redhat.com>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  Do you have some good examples of shade working well, I've never
>> ever
>> >>> seen
>> >>>>  it be a good approach for frameworks.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  On 27 Jun 2012, at 11:17, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  > @Pete: DS can deliver fine grain modules which are nice for
some
>> part
>> >>> of
>> >>>>  > the users and shade modules ("big jar") for advances user.
>> >>> Just a maven
>> >>>>  > trick. this way everuone is happy and honestly today any nice
IDE
>> >>>>  supports
>> >>>>  > it without any issue.
>> >>>>  >
>> >>>>  > - Romain
>> >>>>  >
>> >>>>  >
>> >>>>  > 2012/6/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@redhat.com>
>> >>>>  >
>> >>>>  >> It's insanely complex for a new user. Java is already
>> >>> confusing, with
>> >>>>  it's
>> >>>>  >> hundreds of libs. Adding more complexity to packaging
won't
>> >>> help with
>> >>>>  >> DeltaSpike adoption IMO.
>> >>>>  >>
>> >>>>  >> On 27 Jun 2012, at 07:58, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>> >>>>  >>
>> >>>>  >>> Mark,
>> >>>>  >>>
>> >>>>  >>> what's the issue? The thing to take care is to not
create
>> >>> a module
>> >>>>  simply
>> >>>>  >>> for integration. But a module by feature is fine and
nice IMO.
>> >>>>  >>>
>> >>>>  >>> - Romain
>> >>>>  >>>
>> >>>>  >>>
>> >>>>  >>> 2012/6/27 Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>
>> >>>>  >>>
>> >>>>  >>>> Romain, Arne.
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>> Please make suggestions which classes/features
we should
>> >>> push into
>> >>>>  which
>> >>>>  >>>> module. Any suggestion is welcome
>> >>>>  >>>> I think our whole JPA functionality is not that
huge and
>> >>> are just 30
>> >>>>  >>>> classes overall. Splitting those into 6 modules
(3x api +
>> >>> impl each)
>> >>>>  >> might
>> >>>>  >>>> really be too much!
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>> LieGrue,
>> >>>>  >>>> strub
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> ________________________________
>> >>>>  >>>>> From: Arne Limburg
>> >>> <arne.limburg@openknowledge.de>
>> >>>>  >>>>> To: "deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org"
>> >>> <
>> >>>>  >>>> deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org>
>> >>>>  >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:07 PM
>> >>>>  >>>>> Subject: AW: cdi-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> I completely agree with Romain on that topic
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> >>>>  >>>>> Von: Romain Manni-Bucau [mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com]
>> >>>>  >>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2012 11:46
>> >>>>  >>>>> An: deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>>  >>>>> Betreff: Re: cdi-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> Still not totally agree on modules stuff (should
it be
>> >>> pushed in
>> >>>>  >> another
>> >>>>  >>>> thread?), in particular from a user perspective.
I think
>> >>> allowing
>> >>>>  users
>> >>>>  >> to
>> >>>>  >>>> take small bundle or an already aggregated one
(shade) is
>> >>> a great
>> >>>>  >> feature.
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> - Romain
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>> 2012/6/27 Thomas Hug
>> >>> <Thomas.Hug@ctp-consulting.com>
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> @Mark, +1 on not being excessive on the
amount of
>> >>> modules. As a
>> >>>>  user I
>> >>>>  >>>>>> don't think I'd like maintaining another
x
>> >>> dependencies, those POMs
>> >>>>  >>>>>> are usually big enough :-) Anyway, depending
on
>> >>> the amount of
>> >>>>  features
>> >>>>  >>>>>> integrating for such a query API, that
might well
>> >>> fall into the
>> >>>>  >>>>>> "decent size" category.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> @Pete, +1 for the ServiceHandler - IMO
very
>> >>> convenient when using
>> >>>>  >>>>>> methods just as metadata (e.g. for calling
stored
>> >>> procs, obviously
>> >>>>  JPA
>> >>>>  >>>>>> queries or a JAX-RS client).
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> @Jason, Bernard: Agree that I have rarely
used the
>> >>> Home API in a
>> >>>>  >>>>>> productive application, still I found
it quite
>> >>> handy for
>> >>>>  prototyping.
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Could be useful to add this on top of
a query API
>> >>> (and create e.g. a
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Forge scaffolding provider?).
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Tom
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>  >>>>>> From: Mark Struberg [mailto:struberg@yahoo.de]
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Sent: Dienstag, 26. Juni 2012 07:58
>> >>>>  >>>>>> To: deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Subject: Re: cdi-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> I fear that would get us into jarmageddon...
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> We discussed the module structure at the
very
>> >>> beginning, and we all
>> >>>>  >>>>>> concluded that there are 2 reasons for
introducing
>> >>> a new module:
>> >>>>  >>>>>> .) a dependency to another project or
EE api (like
>> >>> jta, jpa, jsf)
>> >>>>  >>>>>> .) an area which is an completely own
block and
>> >>> has a decent size
>> >>>>  (min
>> >>>>  >>>>>> ~30..50 new classes)
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Since the whole JPA area doesn't have
more
>> >>> than 10 classes yet, I do
>> >>>>  >>>>>> not see a reason for introducing a new
API for
>> >>> them.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> Also the whole EE vs SE is moot imo. Either
we
>> >>> have a new API or
>> >>>>  not.
>> >>>>  >>>>>> The classic J2EE patterns are dead dead
dead
>> >>> anyway. EE-6 gave us
>> >>>>  much
>> >>>>  >>>>>> better possibilities, so we should use
them and
>> >>> not fall back to
>> >>>>  _old_
>> >>>>  >>>> EE patterns.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> What we could do is to disucss whether
the
>> >>> 'jta' module would better
>> >>>>  >>>>>> called 'deltaspike-jpa-ee' and not only
>> >>> contain JTA but also
>> >>>>  >>>>>> TransactionAttributeType handling from
EJB?
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> LieGrue,
>> >>>>  >>>>>> strub
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> From: Romain Manni-Bucau
>> >>> <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> To: deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> Cc:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:30
AM
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> Subject: Re: cdi-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> - Romain
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> 2012/6/26 Gerhard Petracek
>> >>> <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> @ pete:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> @ java-se vs java-ee features:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> we can think about a more fine-grained
>> >>> structure (similar to
>> >>>>  seam3).
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> e.g.:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> deltaspike-jpa-transaction
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> deltaspike-jpa-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> ...
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> regards,
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> gerhard
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> 2012/6/25 Pete Muir
>> >>> <pmuir@redhat.com>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> Well, we were looking for
some good
>> >>> use cases for the
>> >>>>  >>>> ServiceHandler.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> I would be in support of adding
it to
>> >>> DS core, now we have a
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> strong
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> use
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> case.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> Property util should not be
>> >>> controversial. Maybe we can improve
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> it's API
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> whilst we are at it :-)
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> On 25 Jun 2012, at 10:25,
Thomas Hug
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> Eventually this came in
a little
>> >>> early, but it's already on
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> the radar:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-60
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> The current implementation
mainly
>> >>> depends on the Solder
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> ServiceHandler
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> (as far as I remember not
yet in DS,
>> >>> waiting for CDI 1.1) and
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> the Property  > utils.
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> Tom
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> Von: Mark Struberg
>> >>> [struberg@yahoo.de]  > > Gesendet: Montag,
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> 25. Juni 2012 14:21  > >
An:
>> >>> deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: cdi-query
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> +1 great stuff to review
and add
>> >>> them!
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> That would fit great into
the
>> >>> deltaspike-jpa module, wdyt?
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> LieGrue,
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> strub
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>> From: Pete Muir
>> >>> <pmuir@redhat.com>  > >> To:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> deltaspike-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>> Cc:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June
25, 2012
>> >>> 1:53 PM  > >> Subject: Re:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>> cdi-query  > >>  >
>>
>> >>> IMO this would be a great thing to add!
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Jun 2012, at
16:56,
>> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> just browsed
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> http://ctpconsulting.github.com/query/1.0.0.Alpha4/index.html
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> it is really amazing
(a
>> >>> spring-data CDI oriented).
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> it is currently
based on
>> >>> solder but since DS integrates a
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> lot of this
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>> stuff
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> i wonder if it
could be
>> >>> integrated in DS in a really
>> >>>>  >>>>>>> portable way?
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> - Romain
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>  >>>>
>> >>>>  >>
>> >>>>  >>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>

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