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Reply-To: "Apache Torque Users List" <torque-user@db.apache.org>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Fischer <tfischer@apache.org>
To: Apache Torque Users List <torque-user@db.apache.org>
Subject: Re: (frustrated torque first timer) Please update the Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <42CC261B.7000002@metatomix.com>
Message-ID: <20050706114726.R22836@minotaur.apache.org>
References: <20050706183028.A37F710FB2B8@asf.osuosl.org>
 <42CC261B.7000002@metatomix.com>
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Hi,

We do have a problem with documentation in Toque, I agree to that. In my 
opinion, however, the tutorial is not the problem (although there might be 
a few unclear points). The real problem is the very patchy users guide.

I remember I have tried to follow the tutorial when Torque 3.1.1 was 
released, and I did not have a problem to get the sample application 
running, when I followed exactly the steps outlined in the tutorial. The 
problems uually arise when one plays around a bit (to learn more about the 
framework), and one inserts some errors which are not easy to notice.

However, when I tried to follow the tutorial, I did not start from the 
very beginning, which made things easier. I remember it was a hassle 
setting up maven, and maybe I already had the driver at the right place.

When releasing Torque 3.1.1, the tutorial was improved very much from the 
3.1 version. I still remember the wekly posts on the mailing lists about 
the errors in the tutorial; they have reduced to about two posts in half a 
year after 3.1.1. From that I conclude that the tutorial is quite ok now.

Yong, thanks for noting some of the weak points in the tutorial. I will 
look at the point you critisize and see how it can be improved. There is 
just one thing I can answer without some research: the postgresql 
create-db task is not working in all circumstances (no idea whether it 
works in any circumstances at all), but creating the db manually is fine. 
In some databases (e.g. oracle) Torque does not even try to create the db. 
I will add a remark on that.

Brent, I appreciate very much you willing to rewrite the tutorial. But 
(as you might have noticed) I am of the opinion that the Tutorial as it is 
now is far too good to be simply thrown away. However, if you have ideas 
of particular points that can be improved, I'll be glad to hear them.

Bill, some plans exist to release Torque 3.2 in the not-so-far future. It 
will contain the ant build scripts again as an alternative to maven. 
However, I am unsure whether this should be put into the tutorial at all. 
Maybe there should be two tutorials, one for ant and one for maven. But 
this is not thought to the end yet.

All I have written here is my own personal opinion, I hope nobody feels 
offended. If you disagre with me, I'd be happy to hear about it on the 
users mailing list.

        Thomas


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