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From "Matthias Klein" <matth...@cmklein.de>
Subject RE: (frustrated torque first timer) Please update the Tutorial
Date Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:05:12 GMT
I agree that the tutorial right now is quite good already.
However, as a torque newbie I ran across most of the issues that Yong
mentioned as well. (I even asked for help about one of the issues and got an
immediate and very helpful response. Thanks!)
So if someone is willing to do some work on the tutorial I suggest simply
stick with the example application introduced there and just "streamline"
the instructions:
- Relocate some additional information (like: click here if you want to know
more about this)
- Add some more instructions on certain issues (see posting of Yong)
- Make the tutorial more a whole thing again (one can see that it has a
great core yet has been patched a bit too often)

But over all: the tutorial including the sample application is almost great.
I believe it does not take too much work to make it really super. 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Fischer [mailto:tfischer@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 4:25 PM
> To: Apache Torque Users List
> Subject: Re: (frustrated torque first timer) Please update 
> the Tutorial
> Hi,
> We do have a problem with documentation in Toque, I agree to 
> that. In my opinion, however, the tutorial is not the problem 
> (although there might be a few unclear points). The real 
> problem is the very patchy users guide.
> I remember I have tried to follow the tutorial when Torque 
> 3.1.1 was released, and I did not have a problem to get the 
> sample application running, when I followed exactly the steps 
> outlined in the tutorial. The problems uually arise when one 
> plays around a bit (to learn more about the framework), and 
> one inserts some errors which are not easy to notice.
> However, when I tried to follow the tutorial, I did not start 
> from the very beginning, which made things easier. I remember 
> it was a hassle setting up maven, and maybe I already had the 
> driver at the right place.
> When releasing Torque 3.1.1, the tutorial was improved very 
> much from the
> 3.1 version. I still remember the wekly posts on the mailing 
> lists about the errors in the tutorial; they have reduced to 
> about two posts in half a year after 3.1.1. From that I 
> conclude that the tutorial is quite ok now.
> Yong, thanks for noting some of the weak points in the 
> tutorial. I will look at the point you critisize and see how 
> it can be improved. There is just one thing I can answer 
> without some research: the postgresql create-db task is not 
> working in all circumstances (no idea whether it works in any 
> circumstances at all), but creating the db manually is fine. 
> In some databases (e.g. oracle) Torque does not even try to 
> create the db. 
> I will add a remark on that.
> Brent, I appreciate very much you willing to rewrite the 
> tutorial. But (as you might have noticed) I am of the opinion 
> that the Tutorial as it is now is far too good to be simply 
> thrown away. However, if you have ideas of particular points 
> that can be improved, I'll be glad to hear them.
> Bill, some plans exist to release Torque 3.2 in the 
> not-so-far future. It will contain the ant build scripts 
> again as an alternative to maven. 
> However, I am unsure whether this should be put into the 
> tutorial at all. 
> Maybe there should be two tutorials, one for ant and one for 
> maven. But this is not thought to the end yet.
> All I have written here is my own personal opinion, I hope 
> nobody feels offended. If you disagre with me, I'd be happy 
> to hear about it on the users mailing list.
>         Thomas
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